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View Full Version : All Figure Pros will receive a letter informing them...


Siouxcountry
03-06-2008, 10:25 PM
to tone down the hardness.

Sandy Williamson (IFBB Judge, and NPC women's rep) will be discussing the above topic as well as the Arnold Classic this Monday on...

http://www.bodybuildingradio.com/

Source... LINK (http://www.hardbody.com/news/2008/03/06/larry-pepe-chats-with-ifbb-womens-head-judge-sandy-williamson/)

cray17
03-06-2008, 11:21 PM
After Gina and Jenn's inspiring performances last weekend, I'm not suprised by this decision at all. :rolleyes:

Just when it seems like figure is going one step forward, it's going two steps back...maybe more. It's not fair to these competitors! :mad:

Shelly
03-07-2008, 01:32 AM
how do they send out a letter like that after making gina the winner??

does this sound contradictory to anyone else as well??

Siouxcountry
03-07-2008, 01:50 AM
how do they send out a letter like that after making gina the winner??

does this sound contradictory to anyone else as well??

That is the first thing that came to my mind.

I think Gina looks amazing, but it doesn't make sense to crown her Ms Figure International, and a week later send out a letter to the women asking them to tone down the hardness.

Shelly
03-07-2008, 01:54 AM
That is the first thing that came to my mind.

I think Gina looks amazing, but it doesn't make sense to crown her Ms Figure International, and a week later send out a letter to the women asking them to tone down the hardness.

IMo shes the hardest out there right now!! Not that she doesn't look great...but it makes me question HOW things are really judged :confused:...and IF there are other factors involved when placing the women....

SBT
03-07-2008, 01:59 AM
Yeah exactly, that really does not make that much sense?!?

IslandGirl
03-07-2008, 04:03 AM
Don't ask me!!! :nuts:


Btw, just in case anyone didn't know...Sandy Williamson is actually Sandy Ranalli. She got married....

Siouxcountry
03-07-2008, 04:12 AM
Btw, just in case anyone didn't know...Sandy Williamson is actually Sandy Ranalli. She got married....

Ruth Silverman interviewed her at the 2007 Nationals...

r3qDHErFdZc

Mike Pulcinella
03-07-2008, 02:04 PM
The letter should have gone to the judges, not the competitors.

Vicki Nixon was telling me about the letter that the IFBB sent out to women BBs a few years ago asking for a 20% reduction in size. She said it was basically ignored by competitors and judges alike.

You cannot mandate to the competitors how they should look. It won't work. Only when the JUDGES begin to award the prizes to the less-hard girls will the competitors take notice and change their physiques. As long as the judges give first place to the hardest girl the other girls will try to be HARDER than her next time. It's only common sense. You have to show the girls by example what you want and they will surely adapt.

Shelly
03-07-2008, 02:06 PM
The letter should have gone to the judges, not the competitors.

Vicki Nixon was telling me about the letter that the IFBB sent out to women BBs a few years ago asking for a 20% reduction in size. She said it was basically ignored by competitors and judges alike.

You cannot mandate to the competitors how they should look. It won't work. Only when the JUDGES begin to award the prizes to the less-hard girls will the competitors take notice and change their physiques. As long as the judges give first place to the hardest girl the other girls will try to be HARDER than her next time. It's only common sense. You have to show the girls by example what you want and they will surely adapt.


Mike:

Agreed 110%- WHAT judges choose to award will dictate how the girls try to come in....harder vs. softer... etc.

Mike Pulcinella
03-07-2008, 02:52 PM
Mike:

Agreed 110%- WHAT judges choose to award will dictate how the girls try to come in....harder vs. softer... etc.

In other words...don't TELL them what you want. SHOW them what you want!

Like my dad used to say, "You got it Bass-ackwards boy!"

Shelly
03-07-2008, 03:23 PM
In other words...don't TELL them what you want. SHOW them what you want!

Like my dad used to say, "You got it Bass-ackwards boy!"

lmao- never heard that one im gonna try and use it!:respect:

dvsness
03-08-2008, 02:21 AM
:rolleyes:

MsGuns
03-08-2008, 06:06 AM
Never consistent...ever
Then they wonder why there arnt many competitors...

how do they send out a letter like that after making gina the winner??

does this sound contradictory to anyone else as well??

Mike Pulcinella
03-08-2008, 02:46 PM
Never consistent...ever
Then they wonder why there arnt many competitors...

Not many figure competitors?? I don't know what contests you've been to but it seems like there are so many figure competitors these days that they need to make a separate contest just for them! They are overwhelming most shows that I've seen recently.

I say this as someone who videotapes the shows professionally and sees exactly how many of each kind of competitors there is.

dvsness
03-08-2008, 03:36 PM
Not many figure competitors?? I don't know what contests you've been to but it seems like there are so many figure competitors these days that they need to make a separate contest just for them! They are overwhelming most shoes that I've seen recently.

I say this as someone who videotapes the shows professionally and sees exactly how many of each kind of competitors there is.

I agree - at Team U each height class had to line up 3 lines deep!

My last show had 'only' 18 in my class.

Shelly
03-08-2008, 04:28 PM
there is definitely an overwhleming amount of girls in the NPC thats for sure

Mike Pulcinella
03-08-2008, 04:50 PM
there is definitely an overwhleming amount of girls in the NPC thats for sure

Should figure be split off as its own contest? Separate from the BB?

sassy69
03-08-2008, 09:59 PM
Should figure be split off as its own contest? Separate from the BB?

Maybe they should make the judging criteria a little more extensive than just 4 qtr turns and "softer" to raise the bar a little on who is competiting (i.e. raise the barriers to entry). I'd also lower the number of people who can qualify for the national level shows - e.g. the top 2??? W/ only a handful of national shows, that means 2 x every po-dunk competition in the country are qualified.

If they want to perpetuate mediocrity make it open to anyone & everyone at all levels w/ really limited and very subjective judging criteria.

These sports exist only because the federations exist - you don't go play "figure" on saturday (like shooting hoops w/ the guys on the weekend). The federations define what this sport is, and they've left it so squishy and subjective that its almost not a sport anymore. Its great for people who just lost some weight or somethign, but omg... if you want to keep it a physique sport instead of an open bikini contest, make it a physique sport for God's sake.

And be consistent w/ the judging. Seriously. In the one of the states I have competed in, the politics of the local shows were so skewed that whoever was chosen to win the show, I'd be freeking embarrassed to have them as a representative of that state at a national show.

If you want the sport to thrive, let the judges lay down the critieria, make it sufficient to not be completely subjective and then be consistent about it. If they aren't consistent and continue to reward the exact opposite of what they claim to not be encouraging, it will forever be a cluster fuck. IMO that is a disservice to the girls who put in the work it takes to be in this sport.

dvsness
03-09-2008, 01:35 AM
Every time Sassy posts my heart smiles. :awesome:

*Bunny*
03-09-2008, 03:40 AM
Maybe they should make the judging criteria a little more extensive than just 4 qtr turns and "softer" to raise the bar a little on who is competiting (i.e. raise the barriers to entry). I'd also lower the number of people who can qualify for the national level shows - e.g. the top 2??? W/ only a handful of national shows, that means 2 x every po-dunk competition in the country are qualified.\.It's all about the hair flip and the quarter turns .. :) in memory of your 05 GA show :)

Nice to see you here, you're everywhere, dang I have no time to catch up with ya'll.

I am really a different type of figure competitor. I bring my best to the stage and it's really not with any judging criteria in mind. If I dont think I look how I should then my comfortability level and confidence I seem to bring aren't up to par.

Sass I feel you on the Qualifying in smaller shows, but I did qualified in two shows and I do agree and you know that I will have a bit of issue trying to conform to a softer look, I am not doing bikini contests and while there is nothing wrong with them, if I wanted to do one, Id go that route not an NPC figure comp.

I am more set on a bit more 'fitness lean' for figure. I do not like the increasing softer look. I think we all look bad ass with these physiques we've worked hard to achieve. Am I alone in this?

ibarramedia
03-09-2008, 05:06 AM
What?! No way! In fact, they should come in harder not softer.

Mike Pulcinella
03-09-2008, 05:51 AM
The problem that figure will always have is that is was intended as a middle ground between womens' bodybuilding, which will never be understood by the general public, and bikini contests, which are...well, bikini contests.

So we want figure competitors to be harder that Miss America but not too hard. Softer than a bodybuilder, but not too soft. So what we're basically looking for is the most "medium-est" physique. That's IMPOSSIBLE to agree on and even more difficult to judge or train for!

IslandGirl
03-09-2008, 05:57 AM
It's all about the hair flip and the quarter turns .. :) in memory of your 05 GA show :)

Nice to see you here, you're everywhere, dang I have no time to catch up with ya'll.

I am really a different type of figure competitor. I bring my best to the stage and it's really not with any judging criteria in mind. If I dont think I look how I should then my comfortability level and confidence I seem to bring aren't up to par.

Sass I feel you on the Qualifying in smaller shows, but I did qualified in two shows and I do agree and you know that I will have a bit of issue trying to conform to a softer look, I am not doing bikini contests and while there is nothing wrong with them, if I wanted to do one, Id go that route not an NPC figure comp.

I am more set on a bit more 'fitness lean' for figure. I do not like the increasing softer look. I think we all look bad ass with these physiques we've worked hard to achieve. Am I alone in this?


No, you are not alone!

I feel the same way. I was told that I was too hard, too lean, too dry....yada yada yada last year at the USA's. I've given it much thought since then and finally decided...I don't want to come in SOFTER so I have decided to switch over to BB'ing. I don't want to conform with the direction that Figure has headed. I like the harder look. I feel very comfortable with my decision.

Good luck to you!

frannyfran
03-09-2008, 06:04 AM
I am more set on a bit more 'fitness lean' for figure. I do not like the increasing softer look. I think we all look bad ass with these physiques we've worked hard to achieve. Am I alone in this?

This here popped out at me and made me smile! :awesome: Hell to the yeah!!! :awesome:

*Bunny*
03-09-2008, 11:29 AM
No, you are not alone!

I feel the same way. I was told that I was too hard, too lean, too dry....yada yada yada last year at the USA's. I've given it much thought since then and finally decided...I don't want to come in SOFTER so I have decided to switch over to BB'ing. I don't want to conform with the direction that Figure has headed. I like the harder look. I feel very comfortable with my decision.

Good luck to you! I remember hearing that somewhere you were making the switch, or did, and switched back? Grr It's 5 am cannot think yet. Whichever it was, good for you. :awesome:

My issue is my height, and the size I would need to put on to compete at the BB level at 5'9, I would have to be a HW no doubt.. at least I think?


This here popped out at me and made me smile! :awesome: Hell to the yeah!!! :awesome: Rock on sista
:awesome1:

IslandGirl
03-09-2008, 09:51 PM
I remember hearing that somewhere you were making the switch, or did, and switched back? Grr It's 5 am cannot think yet. Whichever it was, good for you. :awesome:

My issue is my height, and the size I would need to put on to compete at the BB level at 5'9, I would have to be a HW no doubt.. at least I think?




In 2006, I had come out of retirement after 11 years of not competing. I did not know where I would fare better at so I competed in my state show in both BB'ing and Figure. Knowing that they are 2 different looks, I played it safe and dialed myself in, right in the middle. I won both BB'ing and Figure.

Knowing at that point that I would not be competitve in BB'ing at the national level, I decided to stick to Figure. I trained very hard for a year to bring up bodyparts that I felt needed to be worked on (mainly shoulders) and brought my best package to the USA stage. Well, it was too much for Figure. So I had to take a step back and weigh the pros and cons of sticking it out with Figure.

....now I am here.

I hadn't realized you were 5' 9"! WOW! I do see your point. I think you have a beautiful figure!!!

Siouxcountry
03-17-2008, 07:52 AM
At Bodybuilding Weekly.com:

IFBB Pro Figure competitors received a letter from Chairman Jim Manion last week, suggesting that there is a need for competitors to tone down what he described as "excessive hardness and muscular separation."

Read the rest HERE (http://www.bodybuildingweekly.com/index.php?news=272).

AnneP
03-17-2008, 08:46 AM
I do not know anything of this issue, but still giving my opinion. :D Ok, I am myself a big fan of muscular and hard figure physiques. BUT... let's think. Gina and Jen was quite hard (in figure meaning)in AC. So what the girls would do to the next show to be better than Gina and Jen? One thing for sure: they would come in harder and some maybe forgotting that figure is more than just being hard. So I think this letter is more "do not bring any harder"-letter. So girls, do not panic or "over react". You can still come into show in really good shape. Being softer does not mean being SOFT. And those girls who havent been in good condition, can still improve and come in harder. But I understand somehow this letter: there gotta be some limit. Otherwise the girls keep coming in harder and harder, bigger and bigger , all the time. (which is in some cases just a good thing, but there still gotta be a limit..)