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View Full Version : Issuance (sp) of Pro cards


MsGuns
03-16-2008, 06:20 PM
The NPC should give out Pro cards to ALL class winners at ALL national shows...

What do yall think? do yall think they NPC will ever make that move?

Bernie
03-16-2008, 06:48 PM
i think new blood in the BBing scene would be a good thing. i just stumbled across some Musclemag's from like 2002, and other then a couple of faces, they where all the same. i know some of the Pro Cards issued over the past few years are working out well, but there a still few out there that deserve them.

as far as with figure, it seems the Pro Ranks are becoming over saturated, eventhough there is only a handful of women who are winning. i am under the belief they are handing too many out in figure. though, there is a considerably hight number of figure competitors out there then BBers at the NPC level.

its all hard to really change. but, i woud agree they should have at least another show that gives out cards to class winners. i think the NPC, and IFBB, should sit down, and pick out another show that they would class winners cards. I think the USA's would fit, becuase Vegas would be a big drawing card, but the Europa would be a better fit for a show, as it actually has an Expo and a Pro Show to go along with it. i would say if they took the USA's and put it in a bigger venue, add an Expo, and then make it so class winners got pro cards, it would be a big money maker for the NPC.

Quadrablue
03-16-2008, 06:55 PM
I think more available pro cards would help to bring in new blood, but we have to also remember that there are women out there who have their pro cards and do nothing with them. I can think of 2 right now from Canada. I am always baffled by that. You work so hard to get it and then do nothing with it? WTF? I'm sure they all have their reasons but still.....

MsGuns
03-16-2008, 07:01 PM
Too many Pro card opps for Figure (sorry ladies) and not that many for BB...
Everyone should have equal Pro card issuance...I understand they did it for Figure to get more competitors since figure was new but enuff already...

I think the Arnold and Europa Supershow should have Pro cards...
USAs, NAtionals, Masters, TU and NA all should have Pro cards for class winners...

No Jr shows...its just that a jr show!!!

Bernie
03-16-2008, 07:03 PM
yeah, i got you on that. it makes no sense. look back to the US Nationals in 2006 of the four who won thier pro cards, only two have competed. a third is scheduled to make her pro debut in August, the other....who knows.

but then you have Debbie Bramwell who earned her Pro Card in July of last year, and has already done two shows. and plans on doing three or four more this year.

MsGuns
03-16-2008, 07:18 PM
There should be a expiration date on those who dont use theirs...

I think more available pro cards would help to bring in new blood, but we have to also remember that there are women out there who have their pro cards and do nothing with them. I can think of 2 right now from Canada. I am always baffled by that. You work so hard to get it and then do nothing with it? WTF? I'm sure they all have their reasons but still.....

DaveFollansbee
03-17-2008, 02:15 AM
The NPC should give out Pro cards to ALL class winners at ALL national shows...

What do yall think? do yall think they NPC will ever make that move?

being someone who votes on this stuff at the national meeting, Id vote no unless a really good case could be brought as to why it should be done. It will simply water down the next level too much... :)

dvsness
03-17-2008, 02:44 AM
While I do like the idea Bernie brought up about another show having cards, I have to disagree that all class winners should get a card at all shows. It's not like that at all figure shows either (I'm doing the NAs and there are 2 Pro cards despite 6 classes) and you have to remember the sheer numbers here. Is it logical? There are upwards of 20 in each Figure class, depending on the show. I don't see those kinds of numbers in FBB. It's a 2 way street - FBB are frustrated with fewer Pro opportunities, Figure are frustrated with so many competing for the same card.

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 02:53 AM
Too many Pro card opps for Figure (sorry ladies) and not that many for BB...
Everyone should have equal Pro card issuance...I understand they did it for Figure to get more competitors since figure was new but enuff already...

I think the Arnold and Europa Supershow should have Pro cards...
USAs, NAtionals, Masters, TU and NA all should have Pro cards for class winners...

No Jr shows...its just that a jr show!!!

Figure Class winners at Nationals have been get'n their pro cards...same w/ USA. Top 2 overall at Jr. U..and Top 4 at Jr. Nat. This is for figure....it is a slap in the face for the bb's who don't get anything at Jr. USA or Jr. Nat....I don't understand that either. If your go'n 2 give it to one division you should give it to all.

I think the Arnold would be a good show to give pro cards at.

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 02:59 AM
While I do like the idea Bernie brought up about another show having cards, I have to disagree that all class winners should get a card at all shows. It's not like that at all figure shows either (I'm doing the NAs and there are 2 Pro cards despite 6 classes) and you have to remember the sheer numbers here. Is it logical? There are upwards of 20 in each Figure class, depending on the show. I don't see those kinds of numbers in FBB. It's a 2 way street - FBB are frustrated with fewer Pro opportunities, Figure are frustrated with so many competing for the same card.

That's true, not enuff cards in FBB too many competitors w/ figure. What do you think would happen if the National shows wer invitational like the Arnold Amateur...they said this yr. every1 who applied was accepted at the Arnold. But I know for a fact in 2007 they sent back some apps/money orders to a few figure competitors...that would cut down on the numbers...or the 1st 100 girls....something so it's not 200 girls. B/C after a while I believe the judges have no choice but to start look'n at faces they know...everything just starts blending together. This year at the Arnold..I was exhausted after Class B...I didnt' really start paying attn. again until Class D, and was day dream again by Class E. I dunno...just seems like a daunting task to judge so many physiques at one time.

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 03:01 AM
being someone who votes on this stuff at the national meeting, Id vote no unless a really good case could be brought as to why it should be done. It will simply water down the next level too much... :)

I see...there was some discussion in another thread...but do you think it was fair that Maria Segura was able to compete at the Arnold after winning her PRO card at North American (I read that she didn't accept it)...I mean is that fair to the other competitors who really want to join the IFBB?? They didn't go back give the card to the 2nd runner-up...or did they?

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 03:03 AM
I wonder who voted on that for figure...

Whats up w/ FBBs not getting the opp? Thats why nationals always is a lot of competitors.

Figure Class winners at Nationals have been get'n their pro cards...same w/ USA. Top 2 overall at Jr. U..and Top 4 at Jr. Nat. This is for figure....it is a slap in the face for the bb's who don't get anything at Jr. USA or Jr. Nat....I don't understand that either. If your go'n 2 give it to one division you should give it to all.

I think the Arnold would be a good show to give pro cards at.

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 03:11 AM
I wonder who voted on that for figure...

Whats up w/ FBBs not getting the opp? Thats why nationals always is a lot of competitors.

Guess it would be a waste of time if ur National level FBB to do Jr. U...really what is the purpose...and I bet they contribute low number to FBB just is no longer appealing, which isn't the case.

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 04:43 AM
The competitors should have spoke up...I know I would have...
Im not understanding these competitors who turn down their Pro card...OMG...
What are you competing? WHy did you work so hard? Now you are holding some else back....
She shouldnt be able to compete in amateur shows period...NPC needs to look into that...thats like the 3rd competitor Ive heard do that...

I see...there was some discussion in another thread...but do you think it was fair that Maria Segura was able to compete at the Arnold after winning her PRO card at North American (I read that she didn't accept it)...I mean is that fair to the other competitors who really want to join the IFBB?? They didn't go back give the card to the 2nd runner-up...or did they?

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 04:51 AM
if you should do Jrs or national shows?

Or lets say you dont feel ready to compete on the BIG National level...

Thats what I did...I was going to do Jr. nationals and based on how I placed there I would do nationals or take a yr off and make improvements...

but after placing dead last and still til this day dont know why I got dead last (but I think the judges just said to the hell w/ it just give them the places like they are in on the stage since they are not top 5 anyway)

but I said forget that Im getting out all 2gether...I decided to join all natural drug free orgs...NGA, OCB and FAME...I am happy w/ my decision...

Guess it would be a waste of time if ur National level FBB to do Jr. U...really what is the purpose...and I bet they contribute low number to FBB just is no longer appealing, which isn't the case.

Siouxcountry
03-17-2008, 05:13 AM
The competitors should have spoke up...I know I would have...
Im not understanding these competitors who turn down their Pro card...OMG...
What are you competing? WHy did you work so hard? Now you are holding some else back....
She shouldnt be able to compete in amateur shows period...NPC needs to look into that...thats like the 3rd competitor Ive heard do that...

I agree it was unfair that she competed in the amateur show at the Arnold.

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 05:16 AM
in the Ms. International...what do you think Sioux?

I agree it was unfair that she competed in the amateur show at the Arnold.

Siouxcountry
03-17-2008, 05:26 AM
in the Ms. International...what do you think Sioux?

I think she would have done very well. Not sure about top 6 though.

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 05:32 AM
There's a "very well" place after top 6?

I think she would have done very well. Not sure about top 6 though.

Siouxcountry
03-17-2008, 05:35 AM
There's a "very well" place after top 6?

It is the Ms International. The second biggest show of the year. IMO Top 8 is placing very well.

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 05:37 AM
I see ya point...

It is the Ms International. The second biggest show of the year. IMO Top 8 is placing very well.

Femphysiquefan
03-17-2008, 07:17 AM
I would definitely like to see them hand out some pro cards at the Arnold Amateur. IMO if the IFBB and NPC in their collective wisdom decided to do that, you might as well rename that show the Amateur Olympia. That's how big it would become, eventually eclipsing even Nationals in scope and prestige.

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 01:06 PM
if you should do Jrs or national shows?

Or lets say you dont feel ready to compete on the BIG National level...

Thats what I did...I was going to do Jr. nationals and based on how I placed there I would do nationals or take a yr off and make improvements...

but after placing dead last and still til this day dont know why I got dead last (but I think the judges just said to the hell w/ it just give them the places like they are in on the stage since they are not top 5 anyway)

but I said forget that Im getting out all 2gether...I decided to join all natural drug free orgs...NGA, OCB and FAME...I am happy w/ my decision...

We're the judges available to give you any feedback or did the feedback they gave just not make sense?

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 01:09 PM
There's a "very well" place after top 6?

I don't know about Top 6....IMO her abdomen is entirely tooo wide..Yes, she has the muscle mass...but her symmetry wouldn't be close to the Top 6 from the Arnold. All of Top 6 had that small waist....she was pretty straight up/down to me.

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 01:11 PM
I would definitely like to see them hand out some pro cards at the Arnold Amateur. IMO if the IFBB and NPC in their collective wisdom decided to do that, you might as well rename that show the Amateur Olympia. That's how big it would become, eventually eclipsing even Nationals in scope and prestige.


I agree...it would be an Amateur Olympia...you would have those coming off of Nationals who didn't get the PRO card very hungry to keep pushing for another 12 weeks.

For me pesronally, there would just be know incentive for me to do the Arnold w/o a pro card. During the holidays I like to enjoy my family and the fellowship w/ friends...and it would be extra hard to be socialble during the Holidays while dieting.

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 02:39 PM
I waited as long as I could...

One judge told me I needed to bring more detail in my back...WTF...did she see my back...how much more detailed did she need.

On that Sunday I called the head judge's room and left her a message, I called her cell and left a message. I even emailed her with pics and my # b4 leaving town. Nada...nothin!!!!

Sometimes I think judges just say anything...while in the NPC I went to one judge only...he was at my 1st show, so he was able to give me feed back.

We're the judges available to give you any feedback or did the feedback they gave just not make sense?

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 02:58 PM
I waited as long as I could...

One judge told me I needed to bring more detail in my back...WTF...did she see my back...how much more detailed did she need.

On that Sunday I called the head judge's room and left her a message, I called her cell and left a message. I even emailed her with pics and my # b4 leaving town. Nada...nothin!!!!

Sometimes I think judges just say anything...while in the NPC I went to one judge only...he was at my 1st show, so he was able to give me feed back.

I think judging is very hard...and I'm sure w/ the large classes, after the Top 5-10...they don't even pay attn. anymore...which isn't fair, but I think it's true...There's no way anyone can make me believe they are go'n 2b able to 2 have detailed feedback for 20 plus girls in 6 classes.

I tried my hardest to focus on every1 at the Arnold figure...and like i said in another thread, after Class B my head was already spinning, I checked back in when class D came on stage.....and that's only b/c I was look'n for ppl I knew. I truly believe you have may 5-10 seconds to draw a judge into you....after that, you'll definitely get lost on stage, unless they are familiar with you and your physique.

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 02:59 PM
I waited as long as I could...

One judge told me I needed to bring more detail in my back...WTF...did she see my back...how much more detailed did she need.

On that Sunday I called the head judge's room and left her a message, I called her cell and left a message. I even emailed her with pics and my # b4 leaving town. Nada...nothin!!!!

Sometimes I think judges just say anything...while in the NPC I went to one judge only...he was at my 1st show, so he was able to give me feed back.

But I think that's rude and unprofessional that they wouldn't atleast acknowledge your phone call.

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 03:00 PM
check your PM....

I think judging is very hard...and I'm sure w/ the large classes, after the Top 5-10...they don't even pay attn. anymore...which isn't fair, but I think it's true...There's no way anyone can make me believe they are go'n 2b able to 2 have detailed feedback for 20 plus girls in 6 classes.

I tried my hardest to focus on every1 at the Arnold figure...and like i said in another thread, after Class B my head was already spinning, I checked back in when class D came on stage.....and that's only b/c I was look'n for ppl I knew. I truly believe you have may 5-10 seconds to draw a judge into you....after that, you'll definitely get lost on stage, unless they are familiar with you and your physique.

ISABELLE TURELL
03-17-2008, 03:13 PM
My concern would be about those who do get pro cards and then never compete on a pro level.

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 03:22 PM
It expires at a certain point w/ in a yr or 2...they would have to requalify, so it will make them compete...I mean why work so hard to get your pro card but then dont compete...I am still baffled by that...

Its bad enuff FBBs are now doing figure, fitness or not competing at all because they dont like the look FBBs are turning to....so are numbers are low...but I bet if they gave out more Pro cards- the ones who are hungry - will compete...Im talking about the one who have been competing for 10-20 as an amateur...dont you think they will do their 1st pro show w/in 6mo to a yr???

My concern would be about those who do get pro cards and then never compete on a pro level.

DaveFollansbee
03-17-2008, 10:21 PM
I see...there was some discussion in another thread...but do you think it was fair that Maria Segura was able to compete at the Arnold after winning her PRO card at North American (I read that she didn't accept it)...I mean is that fair to the other competitors who really want to join the IFBB?? They didn't go back give the card to the 2nd runner-up...or did they?

keep in mind I have no idea who youre Maria is as I did not judge 07 North Americans, I had the weekend off...and I will assume that you are referring to the Amateur Arnold instead of the Pro Ms. International held on the same weekend...I have no problem with that as she did not take professional status. She remained amateur.

How do you know that she doesnt want to join the IFBB Pro ranks? Turning down the chance to "go pro" doesnt mean you dont want it. She may realize that she needs more competition experiance overall before she goes into the pro ranks, as within reason, very few go right into the pros and have success right out of the box.... perhaps she made the right move to remain a successful amateur and when the time is right will transition right into the Pro League.. Take Jose Raymond..turned down pro status many times as he felt he wouldnt be competitive as a pro. Finally took pro status upon feeling ready to compete as a pro. For those behind him in the national shows who complained that it was unfair- well, then it was simply a matter of beat him and take "your" pro card from him lol

now this is just me, and Ive only been competing since 1996 in bodybuilding, but Im currently at the position that Id rather be a great amateur than a pro whos career never took off.

:)

MsGuns
03-17-2008, 10:46 PM
She came in looking like a pro...She could have placed in the MS I the way she looked...
You can still take your pro card and take a yr off like Lisa Bickels did and come out w/ your A game...watch what Lisa brings Aug 9th!!!
No one knows why she didnt take her pro card but it still isnt fair to the others behind her or in the overall lineup...


keep in mind I have no idea who youre Maria is as I did not judge 07 North Americans, I had the weekend off...and I will assume that you are referring to the Amateur Arnold instead of the Pro Ms. International held on the same weekend...I have no problem with that as she did not take professional status. She remained amateur.

How do you know that she doesnt want to join the IFBB Pro ranks? Turning down the chance to "go pro" doesnt mean you dont want it. She may realize that she needs more competition experiance overall before she goes into the pro ranks, as within reason, very few go right into the pros and have success right out of the box.... perhaps she made the right move to remain a successful amateur and when the time is right will transition right into the Pro League.. Take Jose Raymond..turned down pro status many times as he felt he wouldnt be competitive as a pro. Finally took pro status upon feeling ready to compete as a pro. For those behind him in the national shows who complained that it was unfair- well, then it was simply a matter of beat him and take "your" pro card from him lol

now this is just me, and Ive only been competing since 1996 in bodybuilding, but Im currently at the position that Id rather be a great amateur than a pro whos career never took off.

:)

Siouxcountry
03-17-2008, 10:51 PM
Dave here are some pics of Maria from the 2007 IFBB North American...

LINK (http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/northamericans2007/npcbodybuilding/lightheavy/marycarmengomez/finals/index.html)

KP DIVA
03-17-2008, 11:47 PM
keep in mind I have no idea who youre Maria is as I did not judge 07 North Americans, I had the weekend off...and I will assume that you are referring to the Amateur Arnold instead of the Pro Ms. International held on the same weekend...I have no problem with that as she did not take professional status. She remained amateur.

How do you know that she doesnt want to join the IFBB Pro ranks? Turning down the chance to "go pro" doesnt mean you dont want it. She may realize that she needs more competition experiance overall before she goes into the pro ranks, as within reason, very few go right into the pros and have success right out of the box.... perhaps she made the right move to remain a successful amateur and when the time is right will transition right into the Pro League.. Take Jose Raymond..turned down pro status many times as he felt he wouldnt be competitive as a pro. Finally took pro status upon feeling ready to compete as a pro. For those behind him in the national shows who complained that it was unfair- well, then it was simply a matter of beat him and take "your" pro card from him lol

now this is just me, and Ive only been competing since 1996 in bodybuilding, but Im currently at the position that Id rather be a great amateur than a pro whos career never took off.

:)


I understand your point in reference to being a great amateur vs. a pro who's career never took off. And that's understandable w/ bantamweights at Nationals who will never be able to compare w/ those like Dexter, Vic, etc. But in Maria's case....she can hold her ground on the PRO stage.

NPCIN
03-18-2008, 11:54 PM
It does seem that some of the FBB's that have recently received their pro cards aren't competing for whatever reason. I'd like to see the NPC give out a few more pro cards for FBB.
If Maria did refuse her pro card, I would like to see it offered to someone else. I guess the question would be to who to give it to? I guess you could say give it to the runner-up in the overall, but lets just say the second place finnisher to Maria in the Lt Hwt class is a better FBB than the other class winners...what do you do?

MsGuns
03-19-2008, 01:37 AM
Give it to the runner up...

If all class winners turn pro and they decline...dont give it at all and make it known quickly she didnt take it...

And that she cant compete in any show but that one again a yr later...

It does seem that some of the FBB's that have recently received their pro cards aren't competing for whatever reason. I'd like to see the NPC give out a few more pro cards for FBB.
If Maria did refuse her pro card, I would like to see it offered to someone else. I guess the question would be to who to give it to? I guess you could say give it to the runner-up in the overall, but lets just say the second place finnisher to Maria in the Lt Hwt class is a better FBB than the other class winners...what do you do?

KP DIVA
03-19-2008, 02:41 AM
It does seem that some of the FBB's that have recently received their pro cards aren't competing for whatever reason. I'd like to see the NPC give out a few more pro cards for FBB.
If Maria did refuse her pro card, I would like to see it offered to someone else. I guess the question would be to who to give it to? I guess you could say give it to the runner-up in the overall, but lets just say the second place finnisher to Maria in the Lt Hwt class is a better FBB than the other class winners...what do you do?

I think they should give the pro card 2 the runner-up in situations like this...God forbid she doesn't want it...then I'm clueless what should be done.

KP DIVA
03-19-2008, 02:43 AM
Give it to the runner up...

If all class winners turn pro and they decline...dont give it at all and make it known quickly she didnt take it...

And that she cant compete in any show but that one again a yr later...

Now I don't know if it would be fair to say they can't compete for an entire year...b/c I do understand the point of not being able to compete on a PRO level, but still having the desire to compete and win on the amateur level.

MsGuns
03-19-2008, 04:30 AM
Ok she can compete but not at a BIG show like the Arnold or Europa...smile

Now I don't know if it would be fair to say they can't compete for an entire year...b/c I do understand the point of not being able to compete on a PRO level, but still having the desire to compete and win on the amateur level.

KP DIVA
03-19-2008, 10:46 AM
Ok she can compete but not at a BIG show like the Arnold or Europa...smile

LOL! You are a trip Drexel!!! But that's true, Joanna Stewart came all the way from New Zealand...I believe she would have won the overall if it wasn't for Maria...thank God Maria can only competed at the Arnold and NA......or there would be a lot of upset competitors. And to travel that far, it would seem like a slap in the face to keep get'n beat by some1 who continues to turn down a pro card.

But at the end of the day, we'll never know why Maria made the decision she made until she makes it public. But the one point that NPCIN made that keeps sticking in my head is "being a great amateur vs. a PRO w/o a great career" (not exact words) really made me think in a different perspective. And I can truly understand that rationale. We all luv to compete and we enjoy to win...that same reward of winning is the same rather it be jv, varsity, college, intermural sports (sp), or a friendly softball game in a work or church league....the feeling of a win is priceless!!! So anywho, 2008 should be interesting for the females rather it be bb, figure, or fitness.