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KP DIVA
03-27-2008, 09:27 PM
Hello All,

I'm currently in contest prep and using fat burners. I was using Lypoleze and Somaleze by Species Nutrition. I like the Lypoleze b/c I'm able to take my daily nap....however, they are very expensive. W/ shipping and handling I'm paying about $100 every 4 weeks.

Any suggestions on what you have used and if it worked. I tried Lipo 6 prior to get'n on the other fat burners and it didn't help me at all.

Shelly
03-27-2008, 09:45 PM
hey girl!

I hated lipo6 too. i use Xantrex.... im obsessed with it. But Ventolean is also really good... its liquid form... so it hits ya quick and comes in handy for AM cardio!

KP DIVA
03-27-2008, 09:53 PM
Thanks, I'll do a search on those 2! Don't have much time....so if I can't find a product that works..I'll just have to spend the extra cash.


hey girl!

I hated lipo6 too. i use Xantrex.... im obsessed with it. But Ventolean is also really good... its liquid form... so it hits ya quick and comes in handy for AM cardio!

Lisa E
03-28-2008, 12:18 AM
JET FUEL

Alli
03-31-2008, 05:49 PM
I never use fat burners.... ugh. HATE them:p

KP DIVA
03-31-2008, 06:27 PM
Lucky you!! My body just holds on to the fat....takes an act of congress to rev up my metabolism!!


I never use fat burners.... ugh. HATE them:p

dvsness
03-31-2008, 07:01 PM
I like fat burners, especially for appetite control and energy. I used Thermo Fire last season for my stim and will again for my prep this year. My plan (on a 16 week cut) generally looks like this:

Week 1-4 - Diet only, no fatburners
Week 5-8 - Stim
Week 6-12 - Non-stim
Week 13-16 - Both stim and non-stim

ripitupbaby
03-31-2008, 07:23 PM
I use Gaspari Products. Last year, for the final 6 weeks, it was a combo of Third Degree Burn and Thermogenic Thyrotabs.

This year, they have discontinued Third Degree Burn...I squirrelled away two bottles last year, which I will use. But if I run out, I will switch to Cytolean, which I have heard good things about. I will run both with the Thyrotabs, which I love!

Shelly
03-31-2008, 07:24 PM
I use Gaspari Products. Last year, for the final 6 weeks, it was a combo of Third Degree Burn and Thermogenic Thyrotabs.

This year, they have discontinued Third Degree Burn...I squirrelled away two bottles last year, which I will use. But if I run out, I will switch to Cytolean, which I have heard good things about. I will run both with the Thyrotabs, which I love!

cytolean isnt a thermogenic tho right?

ripitupbaby
03-31-2008, 07:37 PM
cytolean isnt a thermogenic tho right?



No, but that's why I take it in combo with the Thyrotabs. They are thermogenic...both Gaspari products and they work well hand-in-hand. :)

SBT
03-31-2008, 07:38 PM
Hmmm never heard of those ones?!

ParadiseCup
03-31-2008, 07:40 PM
I use Gaspari Products. Last year, for the final 6 weeks, it was a combo of Third Degree Burn and Thermogenic Thyrotabs.

This year, they have discontinued Third Degree Burn...I squirrelled away two bottles last year, which I will use. But if I run out, I will switch to Cytolean, which I have heard good things about. I will run both with the Thyrotabs, which I love!
do you get jittery at all ?

Shelly
03-31-2008, 07:41 PM
No, but that's why I take it in combo with the Thyrotabs. They are thermogenic...both Gaspari products and they work well hand-in-hand. :)

good to know!:)

ripitupbaby
03-31-2008, 07:45 PM
do you get jittery at all ?



I didn't get jittery AT ALL on the Third Degree Burn, which is why I loved it. I absultely hate the jitters, which is why I will never use ephedra.

I haven't tried the Cytolean yet, but some people say it makes you feel euphoric but not jittery...sounds interesting. :D

No jitters on the Thyrotabs either. The Thyrotabs sure did dehydrate me though....I was always thirsty and always going to the bathroom lol. You have to drink a ton of water when taking them, and I recommend a taper on the thyrotabs, up and down, because they are strong and can make you rebound if you are not careful with them.

I did two Third Degrees before AM cardio, and two more in the afternoon...along with 3 thyrotabs per day (morning, noon, night). But I started with one thyrotab per day, went to two/day the second week, and then three/day the third week, and I tapered down the same way when I came off them. I only used them for 6 weeks, not including the taper down.

dvsness
03-31-2008, 08:11 PM
Thyrotabs are DQ'd also, FYI.

ripitupbaby
03-31-2008, 08:31 PM
Thyrotabs are DQ'd also, FYI.



:shocked:



UH OH!! Dave, if you are reading this...save me whatever boxes of Thyrtabs you have left!!!!!!!!!!!!

dvsness
04-01-2008, 12:54 AM
I have a bottle of 3rd for you Lori if you want it.

ripitupbaby
04-01-2008, 05:05 PM
I have a bottle of 3rd for you Lori if you want it.


I may take you up on that. I have two bottles, which should get me through my first contest prep (NAs) with some to spare. I don't like using the same one for more than 6-8 weeks, so I'm not sure yet what to do for the second contest prep.
But if you're not gonna use it.......... :)

BUFFBARBIE
04-07-2008, 11:29 PM
I have used all kinds of things in the past, but nothing really seems to work so I stopped. I have never taken Thyrolean or some of those others, I have tried Ripped Fuel, Lipo 6, Hydroxcut hardcore, Jet fuel none of them seem to work except make me become an ITCH with a capital B. :mad:

dvsness
04-08-2008, 02:18 AM
I may take you up on that. I have two bottles, which should get me through my first contest prep (NAs) with some to spare. I don't like using the same one for more than 6-8 weeks, so I'm not sure yet what to do for the second contest prep.
But if you're not gonna use it.......... :)

PM me your addy, unless you'll be in NY any time soon?

Dawn Melanie
04-08-2008, 02:26 AM
Hey Kenyatta! Sorry I can't help you here. Of course you know that I use NO thermogenics. That would be detrimental to my goals.

Hey, what U spend in thermos, I spend in pizza. :p(lol)

Best Wishes to Ya'!

KP DIVA
04-08-2008, 02:46 AM
Just isn't fair!! :mad:


Hey Kenyatta! Sorry I can't help you here. Of course you know that I use NO thermogenics. That would be detrimental to my goals.

Hey, what U spend in thermos, I spend in pizza. :p(lol)

Best Wishes to Ya'!

Dawn Melanie
04-08-2008, 02:49 AM
Stop it Kenyatta! Life ain't fair. And boy oh boy do I know about it. :banghead:

KP DIVA
04-08-2008, 02:51 AM
Yes, I know, I know!!! I gotta work with w/ I got!!

Stop it Kenyatta! Life ain't fair. And boy oh boy do I know about it. :banghead:

Lex
04-10-2008, 09:56 PM
I like Stimirex and Vasopro...with the good stuff!

yettamae
05-01-2008, 03:41 AM
Lipo 6 and Jetfuel worked well for me. I tried Lipodrene am and pm it wasn't strong enough for me. Being an endo-mesomorphy my body needs something more hardcore. I usually go stim free until I am 8 weeks out then I add a stim in to push it till peak weak.

roeperson
05-01-2008, 02:39 PM
Two of the best products on the Market today that I absolutely love are
Redline Evoburn 3 to 5 ccs at a time you will be ready to crush a work out
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/900000019324b9c/1/122/At30FmrS1D9KFXdViEFXOgvSLLKeWPJf.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/6I8NIJ-M6j-ZyKyXR56BahpKba7JfULr?referrer=hlnk)
Dren this stuff just changes your whole attitude awesome proct IMHOP
http://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/90000001932503c/1/95/CaaIrE0F6j_2tvdPvEmAQPYfB-QNSG4Q.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/8PVC8Br4uD-4Pu45ANE34s1_XzpJTa0K?referrer=hlnk)

JenT
05-01-2008, 03:07 PM
I have tried many fat burners and thermos in the past - Hydroxycut, Hot Rox, Ripped Fuel, and of course, ephedra...

But I have seen the BEST effects with Lipolyze and Somalyze. Yes, they are expensive, IMO it is money well-spent for a product that I know works great for me.

Amber
05-01-2008, 03:34 PM
I like 'VENOM' really makes you feel HOT! and sweat like a motha! and Lipodrene

dvsness
05-01-2008, 04:40 PM
Ladies, please read up on the ingredients in your fat burners and how they can impact your health.

Shelly
05-01-2008, 04:52 PM
Ladies, please read up on the ingredients in your fat burners and how they can impact your health.

care to elaborate? :popcorn:

dvsness
05-01-2008, 06:02 PM
care to elaborate? :popcorn:

I can't really go into much detail, but it is wise to know what you are ingesting. Just because something is OTC doesn't mean it's safe. Certain compounds and chemicals have been shown in studies to cause cardiac damage, thyroid cancer, or even liver failure. We make sure we know what our food is made of and we need to be as sure about what our supplements contain.

SunlovinCO
05-01-2008, 06:17 PM
I can't really go into much detail, but it is wise to know what you are ingesting. Just because something is OTC doesn't mean it's safe. Certain compounds and chemicals have been shown in studies to cause cardiac damage, thyroid cancer, or even liver failure. We make sure we know what our food is made of and we need to be as sure about what our supplements contain.

I agree. Make sure you know what you are ingesting.
I was on one of the fat burners listed earlier in this thread and happen to have my blood work done. My liver function test was so abnormal the doc wanted to do my blood work again. Glad I caught it early before anything serious happened!

Everyone is different and you just have to watch your own body!

CanonGirl
05-01-2008, 06:19 PM
Gaspari's Cyto Lean is good stuff.

Mightymouse
05-02-2008, 03:34 PM
I can't really go into much detail, but it is wise to know what you are ingesting. Just because something is OTC doesn't mean it's safe. Certain compounds and chemicals have been shown in studies to cause cardiac damage, thyroid cancer, or even liver failure. We make sure we know what our food is made of and we need to be as sure about what our supplements contain.


Great advice girl, I can't take OCT fat burners, to much scary stuff in alot of them. But that is just me.

bree marsh
05-02-2008, 03:36 PM
Ladies, please read up on the ingredients in your fat burners and how they can impact your health.

AGREED! i do not take fat burners!! i do take carnitine, green tea extract, and CLA (with a little pepper extract), but that's it for fat burning stuff....nothing can replace hard work, cardio, diet, etc!!!

dvsness
05-02-2008, 04:23 PM
AGREED! i do not take fat burners!! i do take carnitine, green tea extract, and CLA (with a little pepper extract), but that's it for fat burning stuff....nothing can replace hard work, cardio, diet, etc!!!

I do use fat burners. But I read up on them and the company that makes them beforehand.

Erik
05-02-2008, 09:28 PM
Not really a big fan personally.

I mean, most OTC combo products are based in caffeine and a number of other exipients. Even EC, while good, is not so much a 'fat burner' as much as it is a good anorectic agent, something to help with energy, and it has a good effect on maintaining sympathetic nervous system activity (which falls with lower calorie eating).

The combination of yohimbine hydrochloride (0.2mg/kg TBW), caffeine (200mg) and l-tyrosine (1-3g), is a good supplement combo when you're late in the game and down to the stubborn fat. Only taken as a pre-fasted cardio supplement however as yohimbine is pro-insulinemic and carbs in the vicinity of it generally work against the desired effect.

Eric Broser
05-03-2008, 05:29 PM
LIPOLYZE is an excellent non-stim fat burner! My friend Dave puts out great stuff!

One of the VERY BEST new burners on the market is VPX's Meltdown! My clients love this product and everyone I have put on it has reported excellent results!

Mercury Girl
05-03-2008, 07:59 PM
I'm using this right now:

Tone N Tighten
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa195/eskimoblueday/tone.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/tone.html

It's all natural. I like it. I have to watch what I take because I have asthma, and some fat burners interfere with my asthma medicine. I do feel like it helps me, although if anyone wants to comment on it, or if there's anything I should know about it, please tell me! :)

dvsness
05-04-2008, 01:54 AM
yohimbine

One of the worst compounds on the market, imo.

Erik
05-04-2008, 02:26 AM
One of the worst compounds on the market, imo.

YohimBE is; yohimbine HCl is a different act altogether.

Care to elaborate?

Shawn
05-04-2008, 03:57 AM
One of the worst compounds on the market, imo.

I use YHCL and alternate with my ECA stack. Every 4-5 days I will take an antihistimine to help keep the receptors clear. I think that YHCL is ok at least for making alot of heat when I take it. But honestly, I would rather take the ECA stack or Venom Hypderdrive.

dvsness
05-04-2008, 04:16 AM
YohimBE is; yohimbine HCl is a different act altogether.

Care to elaborate?

What is the difference? Root vs synthetic? Cardiac sides? Feeling like crap? :p

I use YHCL and alternate with my ECA stack. Every 4-5 days I will take an antihistimine to help keep the receptors clear. I think that YHCL is ok at least for making alot of heat when I take it. But honestly, I would rather take the ECA stack or Venom Hypderdrive.

What is in the Hyperdrive product?

Shawn
05-04-2008, 04:21 AM
Servings Per Container
Serving Size:: 1 Capsule
Servings Per Container:: 90
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings Per Container: 90

Nutritional Information
Unique Proprietary Matrix:: 300 mg
- Cocoamine, Guarana extracts, Hoodia gordonii, 5-HTP, ALA Vitaberine (thiamine trisulfide analog), B-12 (as cyanocobalamin), Guggul Extracts (2.5% Guggulsterones),Rhodiola rosea root extract, Capsiate:
Unique Proprietary Matrix: 300 mg
* Percent Daily Values are based on a
2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may
be higher or lower depending on your
calorie needs.

Ingredients
Other Ingredients: Magnesium stearate, maltodextrin and gelatin Capsule
Other Ingredients Magnesium stearate, maltodextrin and gelatin Capsule

Eric Broser
05-04-2008, 06:28 AM
There are some people that have trouble with yohimbine, but if you do not, it is an excellent adjunct fat loss compound without a doubt, espcially the 11-hydroxy form.

Erik
05-04-2008, 01:45 PM
What is the difference? Root vs synthetic? Cardiac sides? Feeling like crap? :p


Plenty of difference actually. Yohimbe is the parent compound of which there are 32 different isomers. You can rarely be sure what you're getting in a herbal product because even if it's standardized to 8% yohimbine, you can have a wildly fluctuating composition of the remaining 92%, and it's some of those different isomers that have the wildly unpleasant effects.

Yohimbine however doesn't in most people. Of course like any stimulant, it's not tolerated by everyone, so it's understandable for there being different opinions on it. :)

Erik
05-04-2008, 01:53 PM
I use YHCL and alternate with my ECA stack. Every 4-5 days I will take an antihistimine to help keep the receptors clear. I think that YHCL is ok at least for making alot of heat when I take it. But honestly, I would rather take the ECA stack or Venom Hypderdrive.

An antihistamine to keep receptors clear? Can you explain? Not sure I understand that. Yohimbine is an alpha-2 antagonist so it blocks receptors, as opposed to binding to them like say, ephedrine

bree marsh
05-04-2008, 02:53 PM
all this talk is straight up scary to me!!! glad i don't a fat burner!

Shawn
05-04-2008, 11:49 PM
An antihistamine to keep receptors clear? Can you explain? Not sure I understand that. Yohimbine is an alpha-2 antagonist so it blocks receptors, as opposed to binding to them like say, ephedrine

Actually I can't explain it. The concept is more for any adrenal stimulant...not the YHCL. It is also theorized to help with a beta antagonist like clen as well.

dvsness
05-05-2008, 12:30 AM
Servings Per Container
Serving Size:: 1 Capsule
Servings Per Container:: 90
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings Per Container: 90

Nutritional Information
Unique Proprietary Matrix:: 300 mg
- Cocoamine, Guarana extracts, Hoodia gordonii, 5-HTP, ALA Vitaberine (thiamine trisulfide analog), B-12 (as cyanocobalamin), Guggul Extracts (2.5% Guggulsterones),Rhodiola rosea root extract, Capsiate:
Unique Proprietary Matrix: 300 mg
* Percent Daily Values are based on a
2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may
be higher or lower depending on your
calorie needs.

Ingredients
Other Ingredients: Magnesium stearate, maltodextrin and gelatin Capsule
Other Ingredients Magnesium stearate, maltodextrin and gelatin Capsule

I'll get back to that later. ;)

Plenty of difference actually. Yohimbe is the parent compound of which there are 32 different isomers. You can rarely be sure what you're getting in a herbal product because even if it's standardized to 8% yohimbine, you can have a wildly fluctuating composition of the remaining 92%, and it's some of those different isomers that have the wildly unpleasant effects.

Yohimbine however doesn't in most people. Of course like any stimulant, it's not tolerated by everyone, so it's understandable for there being different opinions on it. :)

Upon checking the most recent Yohimbe product I have tried (ugh) (I won't name names), It was in fact HCL. It also made me feel like absolute death, which is not an uncommon problem from the feedback I've gotten from others. It is regarded by many, myself included, as a dirty stim.

Do have any opinion on the cardiac sides associated with Y?

On a side note, I tolerate topical Y much better than orally administered Y. Have you ever tried it?

Erik
05-05-2008, 12:31 AM
Actually I can't explain it. The concept is more for any adrenal stimulant...not the YHCL. It is also theorized to help with a beta antagonist like clen as well.

Yep, definitely have heard that with respect to clen since it is a specific beta-2 agonist (I assume you meant to say agonist instead of antagonist).

Same thing with taking ketotifen (similar effect to taking an anti-H like Benadryl). Helps with receptor affinity.

:)

dvsness
05-05-2008, 12:35 AM
Yep, definitely have heard that with respect to clen since it is a specific beta-2 agonist (I assume you meant to say agonist instead of antagonist).

Same thing with taking ketotifen (similar effect to taking an anti-H like Benadryl). Helps with receptor affinity.

:)

I've heard that as well, but when I spoke to Matt Cahill, his response was, 'Benedryl and ketofen (injectable or oral) did nothing for extending its effects. your receptors just need a break in order for it to become effective again.'

Erik
05-05-2008, 12:36 AM
Upon checking the most recent Yohimbe product I have tried (ugh) (I won't name names), It was in fact HCL. It also made me feel like absolute death, which is not an uncommon problem from the feedback I've gotten from others. It is regarded by many, myself included, as a dirty stim.


Was it YHCl alone or is it combined with other ingredients?

How much yohimbine?

Interesting though. Like I said previously, some people are just more sensitive to certain things than others.

"Generally speaking" YHCl is tolerated better than the herbal version, yohimbe.

Do have any opinion on the cardiac sides associated with Y?

Well, to explain it a bit, ephedrine-based fat burners stimulate epinephrine/norepinphrine which along with the ephedrine itself weakly binds to the beta receptors (they're non specific - B1, B2, B3).

When beta receptors are stimulated (clen falls in here too but is more specific), things like heart rate (beta 1) and fat mobilization (beta 1, 2) increase.

When alpha receptors are stimulated the opposite happens - fat loss and heart rate decrease (due to alpha 2 stimulation). However, when they're blocked, fat loss and heart rate increase. Since yohimbine functions to block the alpha receptors, it will increase heart rate. It's like removing an inhibition, which results in stimulation whereas with ephedrine and similar compounds, it's direct stimulation.

This is the key reason why ephedrine and yohimbine should not be taken together. (ie. same dose).


On a side note, I tolerate topical Y much better than orally administered Y. Have you ever tried it?

No, but I've heard some positive feedback here. The logic in the design is that the main issue with oral yohimbine is systemic uptake, hence trying to do it locally through transdermal means.

Erik
05-05-2008, 12:38 AM
I've heard that as well, but when I spoke to Matt Cahill, his response was, 'Benedryl and ketofen (injectable or oral) did nothing for extending its effects. your receptors just need a break in order for it to become effective again.'

Yeah, I don't know if it's true or not. Just what I've heard theorized.

I think clen is overrated anyway. LOL

Mind you, I think most fat burners are. They add so little effect anyway. (largely anorectic, energy producing as opposed to true 'fat burners').

iron_angel
05-05-2008, 12:40 AM
I think clen is overrated anyway. LOL

Agreed!! :p

I like Cytolean personally:
http://getcytolean.com/testimonials.php

iron_angel
05-05-2008, 12:42 AM
I've heard that as well, but when I spoke to Matt Cahill, his response was, 'Benedryl and ketofen (injectable or oral) did nothing for extending its effects. your receptors just need a break in order for it to become effective again.'

I have heard that as well. They believed it to be true a long time ago, but the more research that has been done shows it doesn't do a damn thing.

Shawn
05-05-2008, 02:58 AM
I've heard that as well, but when I spoke to Matt Cahill, his response was, 'Benedryl and ketofen (injectable or oral) did nothing for extending its effects. your receptors just need a break in order for it to become effective again.'

And there are plenty that experientially would disagree. Ketofen is why so many can run clen for indefinite amounts of time.

Shawn
05-05-2008, 03:00 AM
I have heard that as well. They believed it to be true a long time ago, but the more research that has been done shows it doesn't do a damn thing.

Please post what research you have with that.

Shawn
05-05-2008, 03:03 AM
Yep, definitely have heard that with respect to clen since it is a specific beta-2 agonist (I assume you meant to say agonist instead of antagonist).

Same thing with taking ketotifen (similar effect to taking an anti-H like Benadryl). Helps with receptor affinity.

:)

I am not a chemist nor do I play one on tv. :) I reserve the right to typos and to talk out of my ass...which I do frequently.

Deserusan
05-05-2008, 07:27 AM
It's my understand that ketofen interacts with alpha2 adrenergic rececptors mainly in spinal tissue, hence the analgesic effect. Both clenbuterol and ephedrine interact with beta2 adrenergic receptor with ephedrine also mildly stimulating alpha2. This is partially the reason why ketofen has been proven somewhat useless in causing any delay in beta2 downregulation but may actually help with ephedrine induced alpha2 downregulation (I use "may" loosely).

I should also point out the ketofen (trademark name Ketoprofen for vetirinary use) is an NSAID. This means it will inhibit prostaglandin formation along the COX-II pathway which means it will greatly limit the positive inflammation response to exercise which aides in hypertrophy. Not good!

As for yohimbine, I'm not a fan in any form although the most prevelant metabolite (11-OH) is better in terms of effect and plasma half life. Regardless of the form Y's effects on blood pressure are terrible and it seems many individuals on anabolics should be concerned with this anyway so why multiply potential pathology? It can also have some nasty reactions if you are on SSRI's, causes irregular heartbeat in many users ,and anxiety. However, it does greatly increase noradrenaline etc through the negative feedback interaction causes as an alpha adrenergic antagonist. This why I never understand people taking ephedrine plus Y. Why stack an antagonist with an agonist for the same target receptor?

It should also be noted that yohimbine can increase insulin secretion, especially in the presense of carbohydrates (obviously). If you couple the fact that it also causes vasodilation in vascular tissues, including adipose, it's not wise to eat carbs anywhere near the time you injest Y.

When it all boils down, and you truly understand the pharmacology of traditional "hyped" compounds, some really are terrible and counterproductive. My advice is to always make an attempt to understand how they work fundamentally and do some research. There are a lot of smoke and mirrors out there.

Shelly
05-05-2008, 02:19 PM
all this talk is straight up scary to me!!! glad i don't a fat burner!

LOL I use them but nuttin crazy i dont get all the mumbo jumbo to be quite frank:p

fitmomma3
05-05-2008, 03:04 PM
OK way off topic but I gotta say V - if you and D ever have kids there are gonna be SMART AS HELL!!!!!!! LOL

Betsy
05-05-2008, 03:16 PM
OK can we break this med talk down to something that the normal population (me) can understand?!?


So are we debating on the idea that benadryl / ketofin works to allow an individual to take clen for longer legths of time w/out effects dwindling.. ?? I was under the impression that BOTH of these work to clean receptors out so that clen will continue to work.... is this wrong?

fitmomma3
05-05-2008, 03:21 PM
I thought you should cycle clen two weeks on and 2 weeks off :confused:
Or I know some and again this is a QUESTION not a suggestion...continuously increase dosage up until show... I'm so sensitive to fat burners I have been told I would either crawl out of my skin on clen or be up for days LOL

dvsness
05-05-2008, 04:47 PM
So are we debating on the idea that benadryl / ketofin works to allow an individual to take clen for longer legths of time w/out effects dwindling.. ?? I was under the impression that BOTH of these work to clean receptors out so that clen will continue to work.... is this wrong?

AFAIK, it is incorrect. It was a theory from about 7 years ago that never really panned out. Because Clen is so specific the body will down regulate the receptors rapidly, you get the max effect for 28 days and then you start losing effectiveness unless you increase dose which will just make the problem worse.

The best thing to use in between is nothing that would effect those receptors. Go stim free.

I thought you should cycle clen two weeks on and 2 weeks off :confused:
Or I know some and again this is a QUESTION not a suggestion...continuously increase dosage up until show... I'm so sensitive to fat burners I have been told I would either crawl out of my skin on clen or be up for days LOL

Another misconception, imo. While this is a horse study, it does have some merit:

In one study, horses given a semi-reasonable dose of clen (slightly over 1mcg/lb x2 a day) and exercised for 20mins, 3x a week ( I suppose they were Mentzer disciples) had significant decreases in %fat (-17.6%) and fat mass (-19.5%) at week 2, which was similar to Clen given to horses who didn´t exercise; in contrast, the exercised group had a different FFM response, which significantly increased (+4.4%) at week 6 (3). Week 6! Here´s a chart illustrating the changes in % of Body Fat experienced in the various test groups, followed by a chart showing the increase in Fat Free Mass experienced by the same groups:

http://www.steroid.com/images/Clenbuterol01.gif

Changes in percent body fat (%fat) over time in clenbuterol and exercise (ClenEx; A), clenbuterol only (Clen; B), exercise only (Ex; C), and control (Con; D) groups. Means with different letters (A and B) are significantly different.

http://www.steroid.com/images/Clenbuterol02.gif

Changes in fat free mass (FFM) over time in ClenEx (A), Clen (B), Ex (C), and Con (D). Means with different letters (a-c) are significantly different.

I think those charts should clearly illustrate the repartitioning effects of Clen, even though it is known that it´s effects on animals are typically much more dramatic than in humans& .There´s still no doubt about it, in my mind Clen will help you lose fat and gain muscle.

So Let´s re-examine that first point I made: Clen vs. clen+ exercise produce roughly the same results for the first 2 weeks! This tells me that the 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off schedule for clen dosing is far from optimal, and if you want the quasi-anabolic effect from the clen, it´ll take more than 2weeks on (6 weeks apparently). In addition, since clen alone is similar to clen+ exercise for those first 2 weeks...why would you ever use a 2on/2off protocol? Keep in mind that animal responses to beta-agonist/antagonists differ a bit from ours but I´m sure that you get the idea that 2on/2off is not a great dosing protocol.

Eric Broser
05-05-2008, 04:52 PM
When I work with competitors that use Clen the is a huge variance in response to both dose and duration of use. Clen seems to be one of the most "individualized" compounds of all. Some do brilliantly on 40 mcg per day, while others don't get anything from less than 120 mcg. Some have a dropoff in effect within 2 weeks, while others can use it for 6 weeks straight and continue enjoying benefits.

Personal (intelligent) experimentation is the rule with clen.

Tami Bellon
05-05-2008, 05:54 PM
OK can we break this med talk down to something that the normal population (me) can understand?!?


So are we debating on the idea that benadryl / ketofin works to allow an individual to take clen for longer legths of time w/out effects dwindling.. ?? I was under the impression that BOTH of these work to clean receptors out so that clen will continue to work.... is this wrong?

Yes, this is correct - in theory. As Eric has stated, it is very individual.

One thing about Clen that has NOT been stated up to this point - and you should consider this seriously - it can cause the tissue around the heart to encapsulate and become fibrous. That means, you heart can become restricted in it's function.

Someone also stated that they couldn't understand why someone would run Clen and ECA together. I completely agree, in fact, it was to my understanding that under NO circumstances should you do this.

As for me personally, I LOVE ALRI's Venom Hyperdrive 3.0. ALL of my clients have loved it as well, along with the whole TriLean system ;)

Dawn Melanie
05-05-2008, 06:52 PM
Sorry Kenyatta, but I had to reply to This post. For me it's pizza. To lean out - pizza. To carb up - pizza. U asked... I told. :popcorn:

Hello All
I'm currently in contest prep and using fat burners. I was using Lypoleze and Somaleze by Species Nutrition. I like the Lypoleze b/c I'm able to take my daily nap....however, they are very expensive. W/ shipping and handling I'm paying about $100 every 4 weeks.

Any suggestions on what you have used and if it worked. I tried Lipo 6 prior to get'n on the other fat burners and it didn't help me at all.

SBT
05-05-2008, 08:05 PM
Sorry Kenyatta, but I had to reply to This post. For me it's pizza. To lean out - pizza. To carb up - pizza. U asked... I told. :popcorn:

Yup you said that a few pages ago too :p

You said what we spend in fat burners you prob spend in pizza :angel:

dvsness
05-05-2008, 08:28 PM
One thing about Clen that has NOT been stated up to this point - and you should consider this seriously - it can cause the tissue around the heart to encapsulate and become fibrous. That means, you heart can become restricted in it's function.

Someone also stated that they couldn't understand why someone would run Clen and ECA together. I completely agree, in fact, it was to my understanding that under NO circumstances should you do this.

They stimulate the same receptors. There is no reason to run them concurrently or consecutively, if at all.

As for the cardiac/health concerns, note I am NOT recommending anyone use clen, I'm just sharing knowledge. What anyone here chooses to engage in, I am not your enabler. However, I'd rather people do things safely and with full knowledge. This is why I don't like when many competitors (especially women) do as their trainer tells them and don't know why they are taking it, how it works or what the risks are. 'Because my trainer said so' is a crap reason to do something. You only get one body. Treat it well.

Tami Bellon
05-05-2008, 10:14 PM
They stimulate the same receptors. There is no reason to run them concurrently or consecutively, if at all.

As for the cardiac/health concerns, note I am NOT recommending anyone use clen, I'm just sharing knowledge. What anyone here chooses to engage in, I am not your enabler. However, I'd rather people do things safely and with full knowledge. This is why I don't like when many competitors (especially women) do as their trainer tells them and don't know why they are taking it, how it works or what the risks are. 'Because my trainer said so' is a crap reason to do something. You only get one body. Treat it well.

I would imagine that the idiot who DOES use them simultaneously would probably look like their head is about to pop off! (...and if any of you do this, I'm sorry for calling you an idiot...kind of)

In regard to Trainers.......this is why I train and prep myself (with Shawn, of course). We do all of the research and decide what to do. We have a handful of people we trust to ask if we have any questions. If I fail from doing it on my own, I learn. If I get it right, I still learn. Research, research, research!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Erik
05-05-2008, 11:10 PM
This is why I don't like when many competitors (especially women) do as their trainer tells them and don't know why they are taking it, how it works or what the risks are. 'Because my trainer said so' is a crap reason to do something. You only get one body. Treat it well.

Excellent point.

Deserusan
05-06-2008, 04:56 AM
One thing about Clen that has NOT been stated up to this point - and you should consider this seriously - it can cause the tissue around the heart to encapsulate and become fibrous. That means, you heart can become restricted in it's function.

Someone also stated that they couldn't understand why someone would run Clen and ECA together. I completely agree, in fact, it was to my understanding that under NO circumstances should you do this.


Great point. I never understood this either and it illustrates perfectly why people need to always take word of mouth with a grain of salt (just like forum posts). Unfortunately we live in a day and age where more is better in every sense of the application.

I hope by putting some of this out there people will think twice about upping the dose when they should probably stop cheating on their diet, do more cardio, eat cleaner in the offseason, etc.

Christina
07-03-2008, 04:29 PM
I have used all kinds of things in the past, but nothing really seems to work so I stopped. I have never taken Thyrolean or some of those others, I have tried Ripped Fuel, Lipo 6, Hydroxcut hardcore, Jet fuel none of them seem to work except make me become an ITCH with a capital B. :mad:

Im sold on ALRI's Venom...it makes you a little thirsty, but I was always in a good mood on it but there's an issue with ordering it for a while because of some formula changes being made...I just switched to TightFEM today and it is kicking my butt. It's a diff type of burner (caffeine/green tea extract combo) so I guess my body needs the chance to assimilate.

ChristyNicole
12-28-2011, 03:50 PM
I see there have been no posts here in forever...but it was worth a try to see if anyone has a review from personally using Jet Fuel Pyro? Thanks:)

fitandhappy
02-26-2012, 10:00 PM
This is not a fat burner, but it does cause me to not have any hunger what so ever.. Craze pre workout evergy drink. No sugar or cals. It really gives me great energy for morning workouts with NO crash. I could go all day and not eat.. I love it as it makes dieting so much easier, LOL I have to literally sit down and make myself eat.

dvsness
02-26-2012, 10:25 PM
This is not a fat burner, but it does cause me to not have any hunger what so ever.. Craze pre workout evergy drink. No sugar or cals. It really gives me great energy for morning workouts with NO crash. I could go all day and not eat.. I love it as it makes dieting so much easier, LOL I have to literally sit down and make myself eat.

Craze has a great stim complex. Driven Sports makes a very good line.

Becca Staggs
02-26-2012, 10:41 PM
Craze has a great stim complex. Driven Sports makes a very good line.

V, I pulled this from their product description. I had cell-tech once (when Tim was sponsored by Muscletech) and it made me nauseous to the point of vomiting.
I've heard some creatine products can make people feel this way b/c of what is commonly mixed with them. I don't take creatine, but wondering if you see anything in this product that would do the same?

Nutrition Facts
511-0005
DS (Driven Sports)
Craze, Candy Grape
8.4 oz. (238.5g)
Nutrition Facts
Serving Size: 1 Scoop (5.3 grams)
Servings Per Container: 45


Amount
Per Serving % Daily
Value*

Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 250 mg 417%


Kinesis™Propietary Blend Trimethylglycine (Betaine Anhydrous), Creatine Monohydrate, L-Citrulline, Dendrobex™ (Dendrobium Extract) (stem) (Concentrated for alkaloid content including Dendrobine, Dendroxine, Dendramine, B-Phenylethylamine, N, N-Dimethyl-B-Phenylethylamine, and N, N-Diethyl-B-Phenylethylamine), B-Phenylethylamine HCI, Citramine™ (Citrus reticulata Extract) (fruit) (Concentrated for N-Methyltyramine content), Caffeine Anhydrous.

dvsness
02-27-2012, 02:22 AM
V, I pulled this from their product description. I had cell-tech once (when Tim was sponsored by Muscletech) and it made me nauseous to the point of vomiting.
I've heard some creatine products can make people feel this way b/c of what is commonly mixed with them. I don't take creatine, but wondering if you see anything in this product that would do the same?

I don't really consider Craze a 'creatine product' but rather a pre-WO that contains creatine, as it doesn't contain enough to achieve saturation. At any rate, I don't see anything listed that jumps out at me as nausea inducing, but I have some here if you'd like me to send you some to try. Just start with 1/2 - 3/4 scoop to be safe.

Becca Staggs
02-27-2012, 12:17 PM
I don't really consider Craze a 'creatine product' but rather a pre-WO that contains creatine, as it doesn't contain enough to achieve saturation. At any rate, I don't see anything listed that jumps out at me as nausea inducing, but I have some here if you'd like me to send you some to try. Just start with 1/2 - 3/4 scoop to be safe.

Sure, I'd like to try it.
I thought it was a Pre-WO too until I looked at the ingredients, so I wasn't sure. I'm not sensative to caffiene at all, but I will start with less to be safe. Thanks!

dvsness
02-27-2012, 12:22 PM
Sure, I'd like to try it.
I thought it was a Pre-WO too until I looked at the ingredients, so I wasn't sure. I'm not sensative to caffiene at all, but I will start with less to be safe. Thanks!

There's not a lot of caffeine, but caffeine isn't the main stimulant (Dendrobium is). The focus is insane.

Text me your addy again and I'll have it out today or tomorrow.

LaurenFazio
02-27-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't really consider Craze a 'creatine product' but rather a pre-WO that contains creatine, as it doesn't contain enough to achieve saturation. At any rate, I don't see anything listed that jumps out at me as nausea inducing, but I have some here if you'd like me to send you some to try. Just start with 1/2 - 3/4 scoop to be safe.

I get the vomit-nausea feeling after taking a pre workout drink that has a lot of caffeine in it, if I have already had a lot of caffeine already that day.

I took SuperFreak once (200mg caffeine) after having my Spirodex + 4 coffees. I felt like I was going to vomit baaaad :puke: and thats happened before so... I dunno my reasoning is the caffeine. lol

What you think, V?

tammyp
02-27-2012, 12:46 PM
i need focus..lol. im so add its crazy.

Becca Staggs
02-27-2012, 01:25 PM
I took SuperFreak once (200mg caffeine) after having my Spirodex + 4 coffees. I felt like I was going to vomit baaaad :puke: and thats happened before so... I dunno my reasoning is the caffeine. lol



DUMMY! LOL

Yeah mine was not caffiene related. It was the first (and last) time I tried cell-tech. :puke:

dvsness
02-27-2012, 01:33 PM
What you think, V?

You don't want me to answer that, do you?

i need focus..lol. im so add its crazy.

I'm going to the PO anyway....

brihope1020
04-20-2013, 03:17 PM
Hello All,

I'm currently in contest prep and using fat burners. I was using Lypoleze and Somaleze by Species Nutrition. I like the Lypoleze b/c I'm able to take my daily nap....however, they are very expensive. W/ shipping and handling I'm paying about $100 every 4 weeks.

Any suggestions on what you have used and if it worked. I tried Lipo 6 prior to get'n on the other fat burners and it didn't help me at all.



I have used Oxyelite Pro off and on when needed for the past few years! It's clean and amazing!!! It is by USP Labs. I am currently cycled off of it though (it recommends that you take for 8 weeks do an off cycle of 4 weeks). Right now I am taking Yohimbine HCL for my off cycle bc I am prepping for a figure competition right now! :) I hope this helps!!!!

Dana
04-20-2013, 05:17 PM
I swear once I turned 35 my body decided it can not tolerate anything.

If I do take anything, my ears (sometimes only one) turn bright red and I get blotchy redness on my neck. This started exactly around the time I was 35.

wildcat22
04-20-2013, 05:47 PM
I like the VPX line meltdown and the liquid redline I like it but it has to much kick for some people

Erik
04-20-2013, 11:58 PM
Complete and utter waste of money.

dvsness
04-21-2013, 02:57 AM
I have used Oxyelite Pro off and on when needed for the past few years! It's clean and amazing!!! It is by USP Labs. I am currently cycled off of it though (it recommends that you take for 8 weeks do an off cycle of 4 weeks). Right now I am taking Yohimbine HCL for my off cycle bc I am prepping for a figure competition right now! :) I hope this helps!!!!

1) DMAA is banned in 7+ countries so far.

2) You are beating the shit out of your CNS by just trading in one stimulant for another.

brihope1020
04-21-2013, 03:05 AM
1) DMAA is banned in 7+ countries so far.

2) You are beating the shit out of your CNS by just trading in one stimulant for another.



Well, I never realized that! You never stopped learning in the fitness industry! 👍

What's your supplement of choice if you have one?

Thanks for the reply!

dvsness
04-21-2013, 03:45 AM
Well, I never realized that! You never stopped learning in the fitness industry! ��

What's your supplement of choice if you have one?

Thanks for the reply!

If you're cycling off of a stim, the best thing is not to use another in the meantime. Give yourself a break for real.
Lately I really like the dendronium products. In pill form, Detonate. And it's sourced from a really pretty orchid, lol. But seriously lay off it. I love stims, but when I prepped I'd do the following protocol:
Weeks 1-4 Diet only
Weeks 5-8 Stim
Weeks 9-12 Non-stim
Weeks 13-16 Non-stim and Stim stacked.
Effective, no burnout, not running anything too long.

Just re-read this thread. Oldie but a good one! Some pertinent content.

ashleyp25
04-21-2013, 04:09 AM
I know the original post to this is really old, but fat burners are a waste of money because they may give you a burst of energy for a while but eventually they work against you. I lost weight by getting off on all the stimulants. It actually worked pretty quickly. Within a week my body started to heat up again (sweat a lot more) and thyroid kicked up.

Erik
04-21-2013, 02:40 PM
If you're cycling off of a stim, the best thing is not to use another in the meantime. Give yourself a break for real.
Lately I really like the dendronium products. In pill form, Detonate. And it's sourced from a really pretty orchid, lol. But seriously lay off it. I love stims, but when I prepped I'd do the following protocol:
Weeks 1-4 Diet only
Weeks 5-8 Stim
Weeks 9-12 Non-stim
Weeks 13-16 Non-stim and Stim stacked.
Effective, no burnout, not running anything too long.

Just re-read this thread. Oldie but a good one! Some pertinent content.

I have that Detonate - got some from Dan.

miss fit
04-21-2013, 03:14 PM
Just curious if anyone has tried N.O.-Explode by BSN?

I've been using it for about 10 days and have never looked this hard at this bodyweight. I'm attributing it to the creatine, but whatever, I love it. I get a good energy burst and pump while training. And I *think* my strength is going to increase this week across the board :)

dvsness
04-21-2013, 03:29 PM
I know the original post to this is really old, but fat burners are a waste of money because they may give you a burst of energy for a while but eventually they work against you. I lost weight by getting off on all the stimulants. It actually worked pretty quickly. Within a week my body started to heat up again (sweat a lot more) and thyroid kicked up.

Define 'work against you.'

I have that Detonate - got some from Dan.

Dendronium is the stim in Detonate - same as in Craze from Driven Sports. It seems to help headaches, I'm playing with that now.

Just curious if anyone has tried N.O.-Explode by BSN?

I've been using it for about 10 days and have never looked this hard at this bodyweight. I'm attributing it to the creatine, but whatever, I love it. I get a good energy burst and pump while training. And I *think* my strength is going to increase this week across the board :)

It's most likely the creatine shuttling sub-q water into the muscle.