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JasonLannigan
03-23-2009, 11:08 PM
Family wants tougher laws

By Cindy Kranz ckranz@enquirer.com March 22, 2009

Jessica Logan's nude cell-phone photo - meant for her boyfriend's eyes only - was sent to hundreds of teenagers last year in at least seven Greater Cincinnati high schools.

The 18-year-old Sycamore High School senior was then bombarded with taunts: slut, porn queen, whore.

On July 3, Jessie hanged herself in her bedroom.

She was Albert and Cynthia Logan's only child.

"My only baby that I will never be able to touch again," Cynthia Logan said through tears. "I will never have grandchildren. I will never be able to hand down my heirlooms. I'm just devastated by these parents that allow their children to do and say anything they want."

Now, Jessie's parents are attempting to launch a national campaign seeking laws to address "sexting" - the practice of forwarding and posting sexually explicit cell-phone photos online. The Logans also want to warn teens of the harassment, humiliation and bullying that can occur when that photo gets forwarded.

Cynthia Logan and Parry Aftab, an attorney and one of the leading authorities on Internet security and cyberbullying, plan to attach Jessie's name to a national campaign to educate teens about the dangers of sexting.

Aftab, based in New York, is the catalyst for a network of volunteers working to stop cyberbullying. She operates two Web sites: wiredsafety.org, the world's largest and oldest cyber safety organization, and stopcyberbullying.org.

"Schools need to understand our kids are targeting each other and how technology is being used as a weapon," Aftab said. "None of them (the schools) know what to do.
Many of them ... think it's not their problem. They want to close their eyes and put fingers in their ears, saying it's a home issue."

Compassionate and carefree

Jessie's friends and family described her as an artistic, bubbly, compassionate carefree spirit who had many friends in several schools. She was also a "tiger," who would relentlessly stand up for someone.

"But she couldn't stand up for herself," Albert Logan said.

"I think when you're constantly knocked down, you lose your self-esteem," his wife added.

Jessie was not alone in sending nude cell-phone photos. Her friends point to the increasing pressure on teenage girls to send nude photos to their boyfriends.

A national study by the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy revealed that 1 in 5 teen girls or 22 percent say they have electronically sent or posted nude or semi-nude images online of themselves.

Some area school resource officers and principals estimate that at least half of the students have an inappropriate photo on their cell phone.

After the cell-phone photo was disseminated, Jessie's outgoing personality turned inward.

The Logans blame a circle of five friends from three other high schools for forwarding the photo.

According to Cynthia Logan, Jessie took the photo and sent it to the boy she had been dating for one to two months. He, in turn, forwarded it to four girls, she said. Efforts to reach the former boyfriend were unsuccessful.

Lauren Taylor, a friend since childhood and a Sycamore senior last year, discovered the photo had been forwarded when two girls in her class showed it off. She broke the news to Jessie.

"Her head just dropped, and she started crying," Lauren said. "And then, we went straight up to the counselor's office. And after that, she did not want to go back out in the hallway.

"She just totally changed. She wasn't as outgoing and kind of kept to herself, where she would normally be like jumping around. Instead her head was just down, and she would always be crying," Lauren said. "I remember her constantly calling my phone crying."

When the taunting started at school, Jessie skipped classes, sometimes slipping out a door to sleep in her car in the parking lot. When truancy notices showed up, her mother started dropping her off at school, but Jessie hid crying in the school bathroom.

"I watched her get kicked out of maybe three or four parties over the summer just for having 'a reputation,' " said Steven Arnett, a friend of hers who graduated last year from Moeller High School.

After seeing what Jessie went through, he said, "There's no reason to send pictures like that, no matter what a guy asks for. I don't think that's an acceptable thing to do."

She couldn't even escape when she went home, her close friends said.

"I'd be with her and she'd get numbers that weren't even in her contacts, random numbers that she didn't know, texting her, 'You're a whore, you're a slut,' " Lauren said.

"Or, she'd get on MySpace and get messages from people calling her those names, or Facebook would be the same way. It was constant. She'd go home thinking, 'Oh I'm going to get away from this,' but she never could get away from it."

The Logans said Sycamore High School and the school resource officer didn't do enough to help Jessie. Sycamore sent truancy notices, Cynthia Logan said, but no calls or letters about what was happening to her daughter in school and no notices to other parents about explicit cell-phone photos. And no charges were filed by the resource officer, she said.

Sycamore Superintendent Adrienne James said she couldn't discuss specifics of Jessie's situation. The perils of technology was a topic at a parent information night, she said.

"It is a form of bullying, and that is something we cannot tolerate. The difficulty is stopping it. ... That's why we stress with our kids that the moment you push 'send,' the damage is done."

Educators and parents must be involved, James said, in talking to teens about making good choices, positive self-imaging and avoiding risky behaviors.

Montgomery Officer Paul Payne, the school resource officer, said he confronted some of the girls who forwarded Jessie's photo, even though they attend another school. He asked them to delete the photo from their phones.

"Could she have pressed charges? No, because she's 18," Payne said, adding that there were some areas that could have been explored. "The investigation stopped at her wish, because she basically didn't want this to go any further. ... You respect the wishes of an 18-year-old. In the eyes of the law, she can make her own decision."

Payne said he supports the Logans' efforts to change laws. "Let's face it. The law hasn't caught up to what the original law was designed for."

Jessie expressed regrets about taking and sending the photo, her mother said. She wanted to warn other kids. At Payne's suggestion, she did an anonymous television interview.

"My little girl wanted to get the message out to other children not to make the same mistake she did," Albert Logan said.

Despite missing so much school, Jessie graduated. She began making plans for a new job and college at the University of Cincinnati, where she would major in graphic design.

Then, a 16-year-old Sycamore student hanged himself last June 27. Cynthia Logan put her arms around her daughter, who was sobbing when she heard. Against her parents' wishes, Jessie went to his visitation and funeral, because a friend needed a ride.

'She snapped all of a sudden'

After the boy's funeral, Jessie went to Lauren's house and ranted about why the boy had committed suicide.

"She just kept crying," Lauren said. "Basically, what she kept saying was, 'How could he do this to his family? How could he put his family through so much pain, and his friends? ... I never thought that she would go and do the same thing."

Later that day, Jessie's mother suggested that she just stay home and chill out.

Jessie complained that she was 18 and planned to go out.

Jessie took a shower before getting ready. Her dad was home. Cynthia Logan was on the phone with her brother, walking in the hallway, when Jessie came out of the bathroom and went into her bedroom.

"That is the last time I saw my daughter alive," Cynthia Logan said, her voice lowering to a whisper.

Her mother discovered Jessie hanging in her bedroom.
"There sat her phone. Her straightener was hot. She was ready to go out. I don't know what happened," she said, choking back tears. "It was impulsive, like she snapped all of a sudden. You have all this weight, and it was just one more thing."

The Logans may never have closure. She did not leave a note.

Jessie placed five phone calls before she died.

The Logans wonder if something that was said in a cell-phone conversation set her off during the last moments of her life.

Albert and Cynthia Logan have gone public with Jessie's story, hoping to change vague state laws that don't hold anyone accountable for sexting. They also want to warn kids about what can happen when nude cell-phone photos are shared.

"We want a bill passed," Cynthia Logan said.

"It's a national epidemic. Nobody is doing anything - no schools, no police officers, no adults, no attorneys, no one."

LINK (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090322/NEWS01/903220312/-1/TODAY)

Chawk1
03-23-2009, 11:26 PM
That's a very sad story. Maybe I missed something here... The mother claims that the school did not do enough to help her daughter. But what did the parents do? Didn't seem to mention that they provided much help for her themselves.. Like counseling..
As far as a law goes I can't imagine how that could be regulated without invasion of privacy. Which is not ok with me. Parents just now have another thing to educate their children about.

KP DIVA
03-23-2009, 11:29 PM
That is so sad!!

JasonLannigan
03-23-2009, 11:47 PM
That's a very sad story. Maybe I missed something here... The mother claims that the school did not do enough to help her daughter. But what did the parents do? Didn't seem to mention that they provided much help for her themselves.. Like counseling..
As far as a law goes I can't imagine how that could be regulated without invasion of privacy. Which is not ok with me. Parents just now have another thing to educate their children about.

I found this story incredibly sad and it makes me angry.

Good question, Carin. I don't know what the parents did to get her help.

I wish they would make the boyfriend's name public, address, all phone numbers, school, work place, many photos so he can be harassed.

FemFlex
03-24-2009, 12:41 AM
Tragic story, but...

"You can't fix stupid."

KP DIVA
03-24-2009, 12:46 AM
I found this story incredibly sad and it makes me angry.

Good question, Carin. I don't know what the parents did to get her help.

I wish they would make the boyfriend's name public, address, all phone numbers, school, work place, many photos so he can be harassed.

Tragic story, but...

"You can't fix stupid."

I just hate that young girls aren't using their heads.....You're right Tre, can't fix stupid.

From the article sounds like this young lady was pretty well rounded until her BF betrayed her trust....So, not sure if it was anything the parents could do. In the school's defense, they can only be so pro-active.......parents need to have a relationship w/ the teachers not expect the attendance office to call every single home when a child is absent. I know a few ppl who receive emails regularly on their child's behavior.....letters always get intercepted in the mail.

ambydawn
03-24-2009, 02:49 AM
This story is so sad. I saw this online somewhere not too long ago.
There seems to be a big chunk of the story that's missing though. This girl obviously had some other problems going on. A nude photo alone would not make a normal person hang herself, particularly considering she had already graduated and was planning on moving on.
Still, this is a very good lesson to teens out there. This is certainly not something I had to deal with in school, so most parents probably don't realize its an issue. I'm at a loss for how the school is expected to prevent "sexting" or discipline the people that forward the messages...

musclefox
03-24-2009, 03:47 AM
Now, Jessie's parents are attempting to launch a national campaign seeking laws to address "sexting" - the practice of forwarding and posting sexually explicit cell-phone photos online. The Logans also want to warn teens of the harassment, humiliation and bullying that can occur when that photo gets forwarded.

This is a great idea. Make something positive come from your pain. I hope this law passes before my kids get to high school.

ibarramedia
03-24-2009, 03:48 AM
I just hate that young girls aren't using their heads.....You're right Tre, can't fix stupid.

From the article sounds like this young lady was pretty well rounded until her BF betrayed her trust....So, not sure if it was anything the parents could do. In the school's defense, they can only be so pro-active.......parents need to have a relationship w/ the teachers not expect the attendance office to call every single home when a child is absent. I know a few ppl who receive emails regularly on their child's behavior.....letters always get intercepted in the mail.


A tragedy indeed. And if Tre' was referring to the dead girl being stupid, maybe it is a little harsh. Not everyone can be as thick skinned as him. It seems like we are dealing with new problems now due to advances in technology. Sociologists,psychologists,guidance counselors,parents and teachers have no idea how to appropriately handle a situation like this because it has never happened before. This sets a precendent, so they have a guideline of what to do.

Most of us in this forum did not have myspace, facebook or cellphones in high school. Those that did, probably did not have text message capabilities. Camera phones first appeared in the US in 2002 with the Sony Ericsson T300 being introduced. Back then it was an attachment that you put into the phone.

These are just part of the new problems that we wil have to deal with as parents and future parents.

Suzanne
03-24-2009, 04:02 AM
It is tragic
but like already said no one is going to kill themselves over just this there had to be other issues

hell i was teased and ostracized on a daily basis from kindergarten thru high school for my disability and i didn't kill myself

laws aren't the answer people need to take responsibility for decisions they make
parents need to take responsibility for how they raised or did not raise their children

ibarramedia
03-24-2009, 04:24 AM
It is tragic
but like already said no one is going to kill themselves over just this there had to be other issues

hell i was teased and ostracized on a daily basis from kindergarten thru high school for my disability and i didn't kill myself

laws aren't the answer people need to take responsibility for decisions they make
parents need to take responsibility for how they raised or did not raise their children

You're a very strong person to go through that in most of your school years. :respect:An opposite reaction to the suicide could be massacre the likes of columbine and Virginia tech. People going postal.

Femphysiquefan
03-24-2009, 04:34 AM
A tragedy indeed. And if Tre' was referring to the dead girl being stupid, maybe it is a little harsh. Not everyone can be as thick skinned as him. It seems like we are dealing with new problems now due to advances in technology. Sociologists,psychologists,guidance counselors,parents and teachers have no idea how to appropriately handle a situation like this because it has never happened before. This sets a precendent, so they have a guideline of what to do.

Most of us in this forum did not have myspace, facebook or cellphones in high school. Those that did, probably did not have text message capabilities. Camera phones first appeared in the US in 2002 with the Sony Ericsson T300 being introduced. Back then it was an attachment that you put into the phone.

These are just part of the new problems that we wil have to deal with as parents and future parents.

Very much a tragedy this, and I'm sorry this happened. But I guess the way I see it, this isn't so much a new problem as it's a very OLD problem being approached in a totally new way--and that's the problem of bullying, period. Bullying has always been around in one form or to one degree or another. Some people I know even consider it to be "normal" (which I disagree with). It's just now, with the advent of new technologies, it's so much easier to bully someone 24/7, rather than limit it to the lunch hour of school. As I see it, the kids have to deal with bullying the same way we did growing up--stand up to them, and don't let them control your life. However, we as adults need to stop tolerating bullying in any form or considering it "normal," whether it occurs in the physical or cyber world. My thoughts and prayers to the family in their time of grief, and I truly hope and pray that this unfortunate situation galvanizes people to action so that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

ibarramedia
03-24-2009, 04:52 AM
Very much a tragedy this, and I'm sorry this happened. But I guess the way I see it, this isn't so much a new problem as it's a very OLD problem being approached in a totally new way--and that's the problem of bullying, period. Bullying has always been around in one form or to one degree or another. Some people I know even consider it to be "normal" (which I disagree with). It's just now, with the advent of new technologies, it's so much easier to bully someone 24/7, rather than limit it to the lunch hour of school. As I see it, the kids have to deal with bullying the same way we did growing up--stand up to them, and don't let them control your life. However, we as adults need to stop tolerating bullying in any form or considering it "normal," whether it occurs in the physical or cyber world. My thoughts and prayers to the family in their time of grief, and I truly hope and pray that this unfortunate situation galvanizes people to action so that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.


This is true. But from a humiliation standpoint, this literally has global implications. No where did we ever have to worry about the whole world literally seeing embarrassing pictures, letters, etc back in the day. Forwarding the nude pictures via MMS in the cell phones and finding their way into social pages like Myspace,Facebook,Friendster,Hi5,etc Forums like this, and image hosting sites usually means you live in infamy. And once it is in the internet, it's there forever. Even if hypothetically, you magically eradicate them from the internet, someone could just as easily downloaded them into their hard drives or external hard drives and image hosting and file hosting sites.

FemFlex
03-24-2009, 11:56 AM
There seems to be a big chunk of the story that's missing though. This girl obviously had some other problems going on. A nude photo alone would not make a normal person hang herself...

My thoughts exactly.

laws aren't the answer people need to take responsibility for decisions they make
parents need to take responsibility for how they raised or did not raise their children

Agreed 100%. And even if the parents had made better choices, that's still no guarantee that their daughter was not mentally ill/unbalanced.

This is a great idea...I hope this law passes before my kids get to high school.

Are you kidding?

Looking to the government for parenting solutions is absolutely the wrong course of action.

It's one thing for parents to seek to educate others - I'm not going to argue against that - but to say there should be government mandates on non-threatening youthful expression is just...nuts.

anglicanbeachparty
03-24-2009, 01:07 PM
laws aren't the answer people need to take responsibility for decisions they make
parents need to take responsibility for how they raised or did not raise their children

I totally agree.


Are you kidding?

Looking to the government for parenting solutions is absolutely the wrong course of action.

It's one thing for parents to seek to educate others - I'm not going to argue against that - but to say there should be government mandates on non-threatening youthful expression is just...nuts.

I agree.

While it is tragic, I have rarely seen anyone so unwilling to own up to her own parental malfeasance as this girl's mom. She has what we used to refer to in educational academia as "external locus of control": Someone else should have stopped this. There ought to be a law is a common lament these days, but it is almost always misguided.

The first and best governance is self-governance. Maybe the mom should have taught her daughter:

(1) Always assume that any image of yourself that leaves your control will someday be seen by the world.

(2) Dating someone for 1 to 2 months is not enough to make the sort of character judgment about them that warrants the level of trust the daughter showed.

I can hardly see anything but bad outcomes for legislations based on this tragedy. It will be one more example of parents ceding to government what should be their own responsibility. Good grief, we have parents dialing 9-1-1 because their children are refusing to get in bed on time. What next?

musclefox
03-24-2009, 06:18 PM
Are you kidding?

Looking to the government for parenting solutions is absolutely the wrong course of action.

It's one thing for parents to seek to educate others - I'm not going to argue against that - but to say there should be government mandates on non-threatening youthful expression is just...nuts.

Excellent point :touche: However, FemPhysiqueFan makes an excellent point. On one hand, it's the same ol' song and dance: The bully's are bullying. On the other hand, now that we are in 21st century society, there are new ways to bully: CyberBullying is a Huge problem.


During the elections of 06', Joel Biden, son of Joe Biden, ran for office in my state of delaware. I remember One of his unique platforms being something like: "Since I am young, I can relate to new problems. Many of these new problems include crimes on the internet. This is a brand new 'shade of gray' for us all" (not joels exact words, btw)

All I'm saying is come up with guidelines to keep kids from going too far in the wrong direction. After that, your'e right, it's up to the kids to seek help if they have other problems (and I'm not saying this girl didn't). However, It is totally uncalled for by her "boyfriend" to do what he did ("sexting"). And as Ibar points out.....the alternative could be "going postal".

Laura Bailey
03-24-2009, 06:47 PM
Very sad and unfortunate ending to a seemingly amazing young life.

I agree there should be some type of cyber laws that address character defamation, but how do you go about defending someone after they make a decision to send out a picture like that. It's a catch 22. There are many people that can be blamed here and that played contributing roles in the outcome, but it was a poor (probably impulsive) decision that had unpredictably dire consequences......very tragic.

KP DIVA
03-24-2009, 07:25 PM
I totally agree.



I agree.

While it is tragic, I have rarely seen anyone so unwilling to own up to her own parental malfeasance as this girl's mom. She has what we used to refer to in educational academia as "external locus of control": Someone else should have stopped this. There ought to be a law is a common lament these days, but it is almost always misguided.

Good point. Why do so many of today's parents think it's appropriate to blame everyone but themselves for their child's behavior.

The first and best governance is self-governance. Maybe the mom should have taught her daughter:

(1) Always assume that any image of yourself that leaves your control will someday be seen by the world.

(2) Dating someone for 1 to 2 months is not enough to make the sort of character judgment about them that warrants the level of trust the daughter showed.

I can hardly see anything but bad outcomes for legislations based on this tragedy. It will be one more example of parents ceding to government what should be their own responsibility. Good grief, we have parents dialing 9-1-1 because their children are refusing to get in bed on time. What next?

OMG, let's not go there!! Child Protective Services get called all the time. Parents are notorious for trying to use the threat of a group home to modify their child's behavior.

I'd like parents to realize if they can't manage the behaviors of a child they birthed the likelihood of a counselor/therapist doing so is ZERO!!!

This situation is just so unfortunate. Yes bullying and has existed forever...BUT, if she wouldn't have sent that picture she wouldn't have been tormented.

Chawk1
03-24-2009, 09:02 PM
OMG, let's not go there!! Child Protective Services get called all the time. Parents are notorious for trying to use the threat of a group home to modify their child's behavior.

I'd like parents to realize if they can't manage the behaviors of a child they birthed the likelihood of a counselor/therapist doing so is ZERO!!!

This situation is just so unfortunate. Yes bullying and has existed forever...BUT, if she wouldn't have sent that picture she wouldn't have been tormented.


I could not disagree with you more!! My son was having some serious issues freshman year,he was failing out of school and extremley depressed about it which resulted in him hurting himself. As a concerned mother there seemed to be little I could do to help to build him back up. THE BEST thing I did was put him in therapy so he could have a nuetral party help him work thru things he was not comfortable telling me. The result.. Honor roll, happy well adjusted young man the I am so very proud of. It is tuff and hard work to face your fears with the right guidence it can be done...

ibarramedia
03-24-2009, 09:37 PM
I could not disagree with you more!! My son was having some serious issues freshman year,he was failing out of school and extremley depressed about it which resulted in him hurting himself. As a concerned mother there seemed to be little I could do to help to build him back up. THE BEST thing I did was put him in therapy so he could have a nuetral party help him work thru things he was not comfortable telling me. The result.. Honor roll, happy well adjusted young man the I am so very proud of. It is tuff and hard work to face your fears with the right guidence it can be done...


Glad to hear someone with first hand experience here. Most of us or some of us just tried to think things through in our head. Logically going over hypotheticals and simulations because we don't have our own kids yet. And in some cases basing it on experiences we had or witnessed....

Chawk1
03-24-2009, 10:11 PM
Unfortunately I have too much experience with this issue.. I lost a brother to suicide when he was in high school. My parents biggest regret was not doing more to help him. Would it have changed the outcome?? I am not sure but I would like to think it would have. It's sad and that is something myself and my family have to live with everyday did we do enough??
I will never take that risk again.

musclefox
03-24-2009, 11:12 PM
Child Protective Services get called all the time. Parents are notorious for trying to use the threat of a group home to modify their child's behavior.




Hey KP DIVA....I'm not trying to 'change the thread' or get off topic; but in your opinion, do you think some parents call these services as threats because the government has "stucken' it's nose where it doesn't belong", by taking away the effectiveness of parents by intimidating them (the parents) with jail time if they "touch" their children for misbehaving? I kinda' feel like parents sometimes can't be parents because if they "use the rod", they will be considered child abusers. Do you see that to any degree?

Bernie
03-25-2009, 12:00 AM
im just tryin to figure out what this law is going to be exactly.

ok this is a case of cyber bullying. true, it is the same harsh crap that has been going on forever. there is always a bully, and they always find something in a person to pick on. just with this day and age, you can pick on or bully someone with out leaving the house.

they are blaming "sexting" for their daughters death. when in fact, it was merely the start of the whole mess. how is the government going to govern, and enforce sexting? it would either entail a massive amount of breach in personal privacy. or banning minors from owning camera phones. that is the only feasable way to do it without encroaching on ones personaly privacy.

it is sad that this girl went through this. but like many have said, there had to be something else going on. i was teased for as long as i could remember. i was the fat kid, i was four eyes....i developed two things becuase of it. a great sense of humor, i used humor to deflect bullying. i realized early on if i made fun of myself it wasnt as fun for the other kids anymore. and a VERY low self esteem issue. which i still struggle with to this day. oh well, it happens. but i have not hung myself. and i know i have, and have had more issues then bullying.

it seems the parents, whether they are good parents or not, are unwilling to accept the fact their may have been something else going on. **gasp** a parent not knowing what is going on in their high school aged childs life....unheard of. and since they are unwilling to accept that, they are trying to put the blame on something they can try to correct.

Carin, I am glad to read that counseling helped with your son. that is awesome. as well i am sad to read about your brother. the hardest part about suicide, you can never know. i had a friend commit suicide just after i turned 22. it was strange, no one knew what was going on in his life. all of us that knew him had no clue. i had seen him the day before and he was smiling ear to ear, things going for him in life....two days later i get a phone call from a mutual friend.....my roommates and i where floored. the thoughts ran through all of our minds, I should have known....what could i have done? what did i say? when the only answer is, you/we will ultimatly never know. we will never know what the last thought was that went through there head, what triggered it, just...why?

simply folks, this is a tragedy. who's to blame? society? we live in a world where people can be harsh. we live in a world where people do stupid things. we live in a world that will never know all the answers. and ultimatly, who really wants to know it all? i sure dont. there is really no one to blame in this instance. it goes back to, a kid making a stupid choice, another kid making another stupid choice. and though the whole thing developed a snow flake at a time, eventually that last flake fell and it was too much for this young woman to bare. you cant point a finger at anyone. its life, its cruel, its harsh, it sucks....but it is life. no one will ever fully understand whats going on. its the cruel
but honest truth.

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 12:20 AM
Hey KP DIVA....I'm not trying to 'change the thread' or get off topic; but in your opinion, do you think some parents call these services as threats because the government has "stucken' it's nose where it doesn't belong", by taking away the effectiveness of parents by intimidating them (the parents) with jail time if they "touch" their children for misbehaving? I kinda' feel like parents sometimes can't be parents because if they "use the rod", they will be considered child abusers. Do you see that to any degree?

Oh yes!! Most definantly, gov't is wayyyyyyy to emeshed w/ families!!! I can speak for North Carolina which has some of the most backward laws in the US...at 16 yo if you break the law your are charged as an adult regardless of how minor. At 16yo you can quit school. Yet, your parents are still responsible for you until 18yo. So, a child can break the law and/or quit school but we'll get a report from the police when a kid calls and says my parents have kicked me out of the house...That makes me scratch my head. If you're grown enough to quit school b/c you know what's best...then you are grown enough to move out and make it on your own. If you are grown enough to violate the rights of others then you're grown enough to be on your own. I absolutely hate getting phone calls about kids who have been 2-3 days and the police call us b/c the parents won't let them back. Well, if the parents can give tough luv what's going stop the child from doing it again?

That's just one example. But there are several others I can go into. I don't believe in beating your child like a grown man in a bar fight, but I do believe in spanking and corpral punishment is legal in North Carolina. However, let the child come to school w/ a bruise on their leg from being spanked on the leg with a hand/switch/belt and who gets called. So, the gov't/state has intervened so much in what's appropriate discipline it does put parents at a disadvantage sometimes. Then you have kids who are familiar w/ the system and will use the system against the parents.

I do applaud some parents. There have been some cases where a child got their ass beat like a grown person....but ummmm, they were doing grown ppl things. We have to do a case by case basis. One that I thought was hillarious was when a 17yo was caught by her father having sex in the house w/ her BF....ok, can you say asssssssssss whoooooooooopin!!! And ummm, the state quietly closed that case. In 17yo no history of abuse w/ the family and that wasn't a battle we were willing to fight. So, it depends on the age of the child and the situation. He didn't bunch her in the face, but sure has the evidence of a good ass beating on the legs, butt, back, arms...alot of it had to do w/ her already being naked!!! LOL!! And the father pretty much said, "if I can't discipline my child for having sex in MY house then you are welcome to keep her." And I agree w/ him 100%!!!

I personally believe alot of it has to do w/ young parents. I'm 35 and I've investigated several parents who are my age or younger w/ 16, 17, 18 yo children. And what I usually see is that grandmom raised the child until they were about 12 or 13....so by the time mom tries to step and be mom the child has lost all respect for them.

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 12:28 AM
I could not disagree with you more!! My son was having some serious issues freshman year,he was failing out of school and extremley depressed about it which resulted in him hurting himself. As a concerned mother there seemed to be little I could do to help to build him back up. THE BEST thing I did was put him in therapy so he could have a nuetral party help him work thru things he was not comfortable telling me. The result.. Honor roll, happy well adjusted young man the I am so very proud of. It is tuff and hard work to face your fears with the right guidence it can be done...

I think to help a child get back on track, it must be a system's (school, sometimes church, sometimes community) and family affair. B/c that's where the child spends the majority of their time. I'm glad you were able to get the help you need.

Glad to hear someone with first hand experience here. Most of us or some of us just tried to think things through in our head. Logically going over hypotheticals and simulations because we don't have our own kids yet. And in some cases basing it on experiences we had or witnessed....

Yep!! Parents have a super hard job parenting....and society does make it any easier!!

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 12:34 AM
im just tryin to figure out what this law is going to be exactly.

ok this is a case of cyber bullying. true, it is the same harsh crap that has been going on forever. there is always a bully, and they always find something in a person to pick on. just with this day and age, you can pick on or bully someone with out leaving the house.

they are blaming "sexting" for their daughters death. when in fact, it was merely the start of the whole mess. how is the government going to govern, and enforce sexting? it would either entail a massive amount of breach in personal privacy. or banning minors from owning camera phones. that is the only feasable way to do it without encroaching on ones personaly privacy.

it is sad that this girl went through this. but like many have said, there had to be something else going on. i was teased for as long as i could remember. i was the fat kid, i was four eyes....i developed two things becuase of it. a great sense of humor, i used humor to deflect bullying. i realized early on if i made fun of myself it wasnt as fun for the other kids anymore. and a VERY low self esteem issue. which i still struggle with to this day. oh well, it happens. but i have not hung myself. and i know i have, and have had more issues then bullying.

it seems the parents, whether they are good parents or not, are unwilling to accept the fact their may have been something else going on. **gasp** a parent not knowing what is going on in their high school aged childs life....unheard of. and since they are unwilling to accept that, they are trying to put the blame on something they can try to correct.

Parents have to be accountable...if your child spends too much time on the internet....it's B/C YOU let them spend to much time on the internet. It's your house, not there's!!!

If your child is sexting....it's b/c YOU let them have text messaging on their cell phone.

IMO, parents sometimes are too busy being FRIENDS instead of parents!! They are so afraid of not being popular w/ their child and their friends. It's ok for your child to hate you right now...but they'll be thanking you 15-20 years from now.

I know, easier said than done. I know I'm cursed. My mom has already told me my child will give me hell just like I gave her!!!


Carin, I am glad to read that counseling helped with your son. that is awesome. as well i am sad to read about your brother. the hardest part about suicide, you can never know. i had a friend commit suicide just after i turned 22. it was strange, no one knew what was going on in his life. all of us that knew him had no clue. i had seen him the day before and he was smiling ear to ear, things going for him in life....two days later i get a phone call from a mutual friend.....my roommates and i where floored. the thoughts ran through all of our minds, I should have known....what could i have done? what did i say? when the only answer is, you/we will ultimatly never know. we will never know what the last thought was that went through there head, what triggered it, just...why?

simply folks, this is a tragedy. who's to blame? society? we live in a world where people can be harsh. we live in a world where people do stupid things. we live in a world that will never know all the answers. and ultimatly, who really wants to know it all? i sure dont. there is really no one to blame in this instance. it goes back to, a kid making a stupid choice, another kid making another stupid choice. and though the whole thing developed a snow flake at a time, eventually that last flake fell and it was too much for this young woman to bare. you cant point a finger at anyone. its life, its cruel, its harsh, it sucks....but it is life. no one will ever fully understand whats going on. its the cruel
but honest truth.

Well said Bernie...That's pretty much it in a nutshell!!!

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 12:37 AM
Unfortunately I have too much experience with this issue.. I lost a brother to suicide when he was in high school. My parents biggest regret was not doing more to help him. Would it have changed the outcome?? I am not sure but I would like to think it would have. It's sad and that is something myself and my family have to live with everyday did we do enough??
I will never take that risk again.

I can only imagine the pain of suicide. Did your brother's death have a lot to do w/ how proactive you were in getting your son help??

Alot of parents I talk to minimize their child's depression....they think it's a phase that they will just grow out of. Sometimes they do grow out of it, and sometimes they don't.

Chawk1
03-25-2009, 01:37 AM
I can only imagine the pain of suicide. Did your brother's death have a lot to do w/ how proactive you were in getting your son help??

Alot of parents I talk to minimize their child's depression....they think it's a phase that they will just grow out of. Sometimes they do grow out of it, and sometimes they don't.


I am just proactive in general. I pay attention to what is going on with my kid's. If I can't help them I will make sure they get the help they need. That is being a parent in my view. Whatever works... They don't call me the momenator for nothing!!!

FemFlex
03-25-2009, 03:07 AM
Team sports with tough coaches also help.

My daughter committed a throwing error today and without even being told, she immediately dropped her glove and sprinted to the pole and back (just over 80 yards total). The other girls who made errors did so as well.

Now that's discipline.

My little one is 6 years old. And she's the oldest player on her team. The parents who've got their kids on this team are giving them a huge advantage over those kids being raised by knucklehead parents who coddle their kids for every goddamn thing.

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 03:22 AM
Team sports with tough coaches also help.

My daughter committed a throwing error today and without even being told, she immediately dropped her glove and sprinted to the pole and back (just over 80 yards total). The other girls who made errors did so as well.

Now that's discipline.

My little one is 6 years old. And she's the oldest player on her team. The parents who've got their kids on this team are giving them a huge advantage over those kids being raised by knucklehead parents who coddle their kids for every goddamn thing.


LOL...you are too funny.

I also thing parents feel guilty sometimes b/c they are so busy working and they know they aren't spending the quality time that they should.

ibarramedia
03-25-2009, 03:40 AM
One thing I realized is that the family structure in the US has changed a great deal in the past 40 years. By my guesstimate, I will say that 90% or higher of families here are single parent families. Another thing that Kenyatta mentioned are young parents. The 30-35 year olds who have 16-18 year olds were basically the babies having babies. Now those babies are now teen -agers. Another factor is education. Majority of these young parents probably dropped out of high school and later had to get their GED. Or College dropouts. Some never even attended college.

Mix all those factors along with the deterioration of the nuclear family unit probably contributed to this. Then add in the *new* problems mentioned above.

musclefox
03-25-2009, 05:06 AM
My daughter committed a throwing error today and without even being told, she immediately dropped her glove and sprinted to the pole and back (just over 80 yards total). The other girls who made errors did so as well.


Not to joke around too much, but in all seriousness; I Believe she would make a worthy roll model for such teams as the "New York Yankees" and "Boston Red Sox". I bet many of those guys wouldn't even recognize that kind of commitment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JasonLannigan
03-25-2009, 08:25 AM
What about the boyfriend? This is the prick who destroyed this young woman.

At the very least his name and address should be made public.

foxybr189
03-25-2009, 11:22 AM
What about the boyfriend? This is the prick who destroyed this young woman.

At the very least his name and address should be made public.

I have heard a lot about sexting recently and I believe the laws are a bit too extreme. If the recipient is 18 or over, they can be charged with child pornography. Let's assume that this boy was 18, he would have to register as a sex offender for life and disclose this offense when applying for jobs. It has happened to a young person down here in Florida and the boy's life is ruined. He was kicked out of college and can not find a job.

The problem is that the current law is tougher for minor than it is for adults. Adult to adult sexting is not a crime, unless it involves a minor. I really think that parents need to take a more active role in the child's life. There are a many things that parents can monitor/enforce to mitigate this.

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 01:47 PM
I have heard a lot about sexting recently and I believe the laws are a bit too extreme. If the recipient is 18 or over, they can be charged with child pornography. Let's assume that this boy was 18, he would have to register as a sex offender for life and disclose this offense when applying for jobs. It has happened to a young person down here in Florida and the boy's life is ruined. He was kicked out of college and can not find a job.

The problem is that the current law is tougher for minor than it is for adults. Adult to adult sexting is not a crime, unless it involves a minor. I really think that parents need to take a more active role in the child's life. There are a many things that parents can monitor/enforce to mitigate this.

I agree w/ the parents monitoring their children's cell phone more closely....they pay the bill.

Sioux,

As for the boy I think it would be pretty hard to determine how it got out. He could have sent it to his closest friend who in turn sent it to everyone in their contact list. I get jokes via text messages from ppl who I haven't spoken to in months.

anglicanbeachparty
03-25-2009, 02:32 PM
By my guesstimate, I will say that 90% or higher of families here are single parent families.

It's bad, but not that bad.

According to 2000 Census data, 28% of children in the United States lived in single-parent households.

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 02:38 PM
The US census will be 2010....I'm not sure it's 90% either but that was almost 10 years ago, but I'm willing to bet it's more than 28% now. 28% may have been for the total population. I want to say w/in the African American community it's 50-60% of families are single parent.

I wish there was a solution to all the nonsense we are witnessing right now.


It's bad, but not that bad.

According to 2000 Census data, 28% of children in the United States lived in single-parent households.

ibarramedia
03-25-2009, 03:06 PM
The US census will be 2010....I'm not sure it's 90% either but that was almost 10 years ago, but I'm willing to bet it's more than 28% now. 28% may have been for the total population. I want to say w/in the African American community it's 50-60% of families are single parent.

I wish there was a solution to all the nonsense we are witnessing right now.





That's why I said it was a guesstimate. I did not have time to research all the accurate and appropriate facts. Just going by what I'm witnessing now. Maybe I should have said that 90% of Americans have divorced or divorced and remarried. So we have single families and mixed families with step brothers and sister and half brothers and sisters.....

Yes. I agree that I wish there was a solution to all this. Not only is this high tech cyber bullying, it is also high tech blackmail or potential blackmail. Think about it. Someone could blackmail anybody or anyone in power with the release to the web of pictures of them in compromising situations.

KP DIVA
03-25-2009, 03:29 PM
That's why I said it was a guesstimate. I did not have time to research all the accurate and appropriate facts. Just going by what I'm witnessing now. Maybe I should have said that 90% of Americans have divorced or divorced and remarried. So we have single families and mixed families with step brothers and sister and half brothers and sisters.....

Yes. I agree that I wish there was a solution to all this. Not only is this high tech cyber bullying, it is also high tech blackmail or potential blackmail. Think about it. Someone could blackmail anybody or anyone in power with the release to the web of pictures of them in compromising situations.



Cyber bullying is just a response to technology...now you have the super big kids in your face and you also have introverted kids who hide behind the computer. Ppl have to remember once you hit send you no longer have control over it!! Makes you want to go out and buy a polaroid camera.

KP DIVA
03-27-2009, 12:46 PM
Update!

The DA of Wyoming County, PA (Pittson, PA) is attempting to charge a 15yo female w/ child pornography for texting pictures of herself in a bra to friends.

The DA is getting blasted and ppl are saying he's overreacting. Interesting, we want people who send the pics out to be held accountable....but the actual person who sent their own pic out aren't suppose to be held accountable.

The DA stated he's doing this b/c he'd like to start a program for teenagers to realize how dangerous it is to send inappropriate pics.