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Ondrea
04-07-2008, 03:54 PM
This is for new member rainy...it is her thread from MD but I think she will get more help and advice over here...ok everyone...have at her! Rainy is brand new here, I introduced her in the introduciton thread! I was one of the only replies, so I kept my answer in the thread also.

Hey girls,

First to introduce myself:
My name is Rainy, and come from Iceland (the tiny island far up north)
I am 28 years old, 148 lbs (67 kg), 5'5.

I have been lurking here for a while, and finally mustered up the courage to fire away some questions of my own.

I have competed once in figure back in Nov '07. So I am currently off season, my next comp is in Nov '08. I've been trying to bulk up since the show as I looked like a shrimp on stage compared to all those buffed chicks.
I was way too lean and not nearly muscular enough and hence not ripped at all. I have always been a cardio bunny, and therefore never built up enough mass so there was not much to begin with when I started cutting and I did WAAYY too much cardio and ate far too little during the prep.
Now I am approaching things differently, and trying to learn from my mistakes.
I am trying to come to terms with tighter jeans, muffin tops and fighting the urge to go back to cardio mania to shred it all off along with all my hard earned muscle.

Could you guys please tell me if I'm on the right track training and diet wise on my road to buffdom?

I do weights 6x/week:

Mon-Chest + abs
Tue- Legs
Wed- Back + abs
Thu- Shoulders + abs
Fri - Bi's + Tri's
Sat - Full body, focus on weak parts (shoulders, quads, lats, abs)
Cardio is 3x/wk in the morning on empty stomach for 30-40 mins @ 75-85% max HR. Only one HIIT per week.

My diet:

Meal 1: 1/2 cup dry oats, 5 eggwhites, flax meal
Meal 2: Myoplex Diet
Meal 3: 1/2 cup dry brown rice, 5-6 oz chicken, 1 cup broccoli
Pre-workout: 1 apple, 1 scoop Nitro Fire
Meal 4: (PWO): 2 scoops Scitec Protein delite, 4 rice cakes
Meal 5: 5-6 oz. chicken, 1 cup broccoli and
Salad: 1/2 cup lettuce, bell pepper, red onion, 10 macadamias or almonds
Meal 6: 1 scoop 100% whey

Supplements: Multi-vitamin, Omega 3-6-9, CLA, Beta-Alanine, Beta 7, Nitro Fire, Creatine, Glutamine, ZMA

Any advice is truly appreciated ;-)

Thanks a million,
Rainy


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Sorry for not being specific.

My ratios are: Protein-160 grams, Carbs - 125 grams, Fat 20 grams (some days fat is higher when I eat salmon).
Calories are around 1300-1500. I know I should be eating more cals, but I have been gaining on this diet and I'm afraid to go higher as I find I'm also adding some fat to my glutes and abs.

I lift heavy to failure on almost all sets. 5-6 exercises per bodypart. Was doing 4-6 reps for 8 weeks, and am now doing 8-10 reps. Sets are 4-5, focus on compound movements. Squats, DL's, SLDL's, Bench press, Chin ups, Bicep curls, Dips, Military presses.
Isolations throwed in at the end of workout.


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:08 PM #4
Ondrea
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welcome hon! glad you finally posted and stopped lurking! i think you should get an experienced figure trainer. and stop doing cardio damn it! you may have to take quite a bit time off to bulk up. im talking a year or so not just a few months before your next show. you need to eat more. you ned to get it out of your head about gaining weight. yeah it wil be some fat but if you bulk correctly it will be good quality muscle as well. the butt will get bigger but don't you want a more shaply butt. we all have been there...yeah it sux but you will be thankful when it comes to cutting for your next show. you don't need to bulk up each offseason but you do for now, once you get some good quality mass on yourself, you won't have to bulk up as much in your future offseasons. how much do you want this? lots, then eat up missy.


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:12 PM #5
Ondrea
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the ab fat could just be bloat/water from extra carbs and less cardio. if you are eating clean and lifitng heavy, you should be adding some good mass to your overall body.


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:16 PM #6
Ondrea
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how were u not ripped at all if you were doing lots of carido and not eating much. or was it just bc you had no muscle to show off to look ripped.

ok here is the deal...at least with us women who compete when we do put on bulk and weight we still look good bc we are shapley and still solid if you bulk correctly. i dont look at is as being fat, bc even in our offseasosn we have lower body fats then most people. the little skinny girls at my gym who are skinny but flabby, my offseason body fat is much a lower body fat then theirs. i might look bigger but i know i am leaner.


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:37 PM #7
rainy
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Wow thanks so much Ondrea for your great advice. I really appreciate you taking your time to help me. I absolutely love your figure girl, you look absolutely stunning in your pics.

I didn't have enough mass when I started cutting and just didn't look ripped, although I was 9% bf. I'll post some pics.

I am trying to do a clean bulk, but the increase in size around my waist is just going out of control. I think you may be right, that I hold a lot of water in that area. After my cheats I look pregnant.
I will reduce the cardio and start eating some more. How high should I go on the cals? 1700? 2000? Do you think I should up the carbs ?
Is 30 min cardio 2-3x/wk OK?

Sorry for the endless flow of q's


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:40 PM #8
rainy
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http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/...ppuser=2219011


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:40 PM #9
rainy
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http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/...ppuser=2219011


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:43 PM #10
Ondrea
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hmmmmm...r u drinking enough water every day to flush your system out? everyone looks pregnant when they do their cheats...LOL! I know I do! r ur cheats binges or regular meals though? i have a binging problem, so that is why I look pregnant!
seriously, when i have done my bulking I didnt go by calories, so I am not the one to ask. anyway calorie consumption so depends on so many personal factors.
is ur midsecion ur problem area. my butt/quads are so my legs always hold the water a lot. if ur abs are, then that is just why you feel so fat. the water and bulk go to ur probelm area first...hence why it is a problem area!


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:47 PM #11
Ondrea
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u r gorgeous and have a great starting point. in amercia you would not have been to small at a local show. are icelandic figure girls larger and more muscular usually. u r right, u did not get ripped. i dont know why though if u did so much cardio and ate a clean prep diet. i can see some back development though that would have came out better if u were ripped. it could be ur genetics, some just dont get all shredded. were u eating lots of carbs. i gotta go low carb or else i dont get all ripped.


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April 3rd, 2008, 04:48 PM #12
Ondrea
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by the way i want to come to iceland. i heard it is gorgeous!


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April 3rd, 2008, 10:42 PM #13
Kolbe
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Welcome.
Great advice from Ondrea. I wish you all the best.

Kolbe (Another viking - from Denmark)
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April 4th, 2008, 04:38 AM #14
rainy
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Dear Ondrea,
Thanks again for all your help, it truly means a lot especially coming from such an experienced contestant as yourself. You really know a lot about these things.
Yes my abs are definetely is my problem area, that's where I first gain and it's the last to leave. I tend to hold a lot of water there, and in my legs as well.
I tend to binge when I cheat, I am a bit of an all or nothing person, either I cheat and go all the way or I don't and stay completely clean. My cheats are only limited to one night at weekends though, usually Sat nights, but the last few weekends have been terrible as I have been cheating on Sundays too. I am blaming my thick waist, tight trousers and huge butt this week on these eating festivals of mine.

Regarding my last show, I was eating oats and brown rice for the prep but very little though. I was consuming around 50 g carbs a day. I think I may need to go low carb too to get ripped. I've been looking into the Keto diet for my next prep. Any tips on this?

Iceland is beautiful, but if you want to come and visit do it in the summer, it's miserable here in the winter. But then again I guess you are used to horrible weathers, coming from Illinois. My cousin lives in Chicago...do you live there as well? I staeyd there for one summer in 1993 and absolutely loved the city. I am planning to back to visit her soon.

Thanks again girl for all your help and insight. I really appreciate it!!
All the best to you for your prep. Your next show is in May, right? You are going to kick ass there with your stunning figure.

Kolbe! Nice to meet a fellow viking on the boards. I was in Köbenhavn for Easter, I have been there a few times, it's a beautiful city and you Danes are just so ligeglad and welcoming.
Do you live there?
All the best!


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April 4th, 2008, 05:01 AM #15
tammyp
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my friend went to iceland last year and said it was gorgeous!

i think we all can relate to the freak out of increasing cals and cutting cardio. but endless hours of cardio isnt the answer its DIET. cardio is an aid ...not the whole equation. i think you need to eat about 2000 cals. you didnt mention rep ranges, but i woudl go for compound movements in the 6-8 range for upper body...10-15 for lower. i always do some type of cardio when i bulk to help healthy, but its usually just walking my dogs.

if you think low carb is your answer for prep, dave palumbo is your man.
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April 4th, 2008, 06:36 AM #16
rainy
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Thanks so much for your help tammyp. I'm glad to hear that your friend liked the country, I'm not too crazy about it now after this awful winter... I crave some sun and heat.

I usually train in the 6-10 rep range. Was doing 4-6 reps for 8 weeks and have changed it up to 8-10 reps now. All compounds, with some isolation at the end of each workout.

I know that cardio isn't good while building muscle, being a former cardio maniac I have reduced it from an hour every day down to 30-40 mins 3x/wk... which is a huge progress for myself. I don't see myself being able to cut cardio out completely, the mental side of that would be too much to handle. What is your thought on my frequency of cardio?

I am a former fatso, so this bulking period is bringing back some horrible flashbacks of not fitting into any clothes and looking like a sack of potatoes in everything. I know this is all in my head, and I am not fat although I am not as ultra skinny as I was. I guess this is exactly the mentality that has prevented me before in gaining muscle mass, i.e the fear of softness. Must shake that thought off right now !!!

Thanks again, I am truly grateful for your responses.


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April 4th, 2008, 07:25 AM #17
tammyp
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you dont have to get fat to build muscle. some fat gain is inevitable, but there is no need to gain 15 lbs of fat to add 5 lbs of muscle. if you keep your cardio to low intensity, like walking that should be ok, but i wouldnt be doing any high intensity work when your tryign to add muscle.
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April 4th, 2008, 07:31 AM #18
Ondrea
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tammy is right!


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April 4th, 2008, 08:39 AM #19
rainy
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Thank you guys, I really appreciate your advice... as of now high intensity cardio is out.

I eat clean all week and cheat only on weekends, for 1-2 meals. So I'm guessing this increase in size is more muscle than fat.


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April 4th, 2008, 12:15 PM #20
Chondrobob
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My take after seeing your pics, you need to increase your reps to 12 to 16 making sure you have controled full range of movement cycle that every 6 weeks to a period that has a 3 week interval of heavy 6 to 8 rep forced and negative (you need a spotter) don't drop your cardio 3x a week is fine and you won't put on excess fat. Its important that you are running your movements in correct form otherwise you won't develop symetrically. Your mass will develop with muscular development and maturity. Diet is the other key component, Bingeing and doubling up on cheat meals just retard the whole process. Eat regularly and get creative so you don't get so bored with your meals. Make sure you have High fiber intake so you are regular, omega 3s, BCAA's, a zero carb protein and a carb load like Vitargo or waxymaize. Check out Dave Palumbo's thread on diet and supplimentation.

Ondrea
04-07-2008, 03:57 PM
another reply form rainy...

I have tried high - rep training in the past but did not respond to it as well as to low rep training.
I was doing strength (4-6 reps) for Jan-March, and then switched to 8-10 reps now, to shock and hopefully grow

I am upping my cals now, as it has been pointed out I have been undereating for a long time, hence the slow muscle gains . I'm just a bit confused in how to do this, where to add the cals, do I up the carbs, protein, fat etc. Any suggestions?
I already added 10 almonds to my mid-morning shake to up the fats, and also added to the brown rice at lunch time to up the carbs a bit. I know I need more carbs.
I am wondering whether I should eat more post-workout (am eating 4 rice cakes at the moment) or eat more oats at breakfast (eat 1/2 cup now)?

Thanks a million for your help .

Shelly
04-07-2008, 04:21 PM
Hey girlie!

well welcome again to the boards.

Some may NOT agree with what I have to say about bulking...but here is my theory.


EAT YOUR ASS OFF!!! 4 rice cakes post workout is no way in hell gonna cut it! You need to be EATING EATING EATING!


take it from someone who has a VERY HARD TIME gaining weight. I am finally up in weight (and its healthy gains. not too much slop) and the only way i did it was by laying OFF the cardio, having serious kick ass sessions in the gym ever workouts (sweaty lifting sessions) and eating my balllz off.

yes i eat 6 meals a day, all consisting of protein and carbs...but each meal is A LOT of food, and extras if im still hungry (fruits, veggies, etc) I just eat away! and it has been the ONLY WAY i have grown.

I know so mnay girls dont wanna gain weight or "get fat" but a BULK is just that- time to GROW !

i understand your frustrations since you were bigger before... but to compete sometimes we need to make sacrifices...even if it means a few lbs and tighter jeans LOL



good luck to you and we are here for support as always ;)

SBT
04-07-2008, 04:27 PM
I completely agree with what Ondrea and Shell mentioned above already!!!

I also gain muscle at a decent rate but along with it comes fat of course, but the whole point of a bulk IS TO gain muscle and with that a little fat will at least come with it! If you keep your bulk at least 90% clean though you can be pretty assured that the majority of the weight you are gaining is "good" weight, and besides it will ALL come back off, you'll just be left with more muscle underneath it all :)

:welcome: here though you are at a great place!

Betsy
04-07-2008, 04:27 PM
Welcome.. !!!!!!!!!!!!:waving:

I think shelly is writing a response as well.. as we speak... LOL but I will put my two cents in about a GOOD bulk!!!!!!!

OK .. Im not sure how quick your metabolism is.. or how fast you put weight on, or how much water you hold.. BUT i can speak for myself.. as i am currently going thru a major bulk!!

I dont hold or gain weight easy.. so this is what i NEED to do to put size on..
Ill try and keep it simple!! :D

1. TRAIN HARD.. end of story..!! Pick up weights you dont think you can push.. and push yourself... sweat .. tears.. LOL I cry all the time!! HEHEHEHHE ask shell!

2. EAT, EAT, EAT... ure post workout meal is not enuf-- you need to be consuming as much protein and carbs as you can.. at all times!! LoL-- up ure amts in ea meal.. you need to feed your body in order to really grow, esp if you are training hard!! Not enuf food = wasted energy at the gym!!!!

3. NO CARDIO-- walking is ok.. but thats IT. Anything else is going be detrimental to growth.. i know mentally this is hard.. but trust me.. you get used to it! :rolleyes:

I think that is really it for my advice!! Growing takes time-- !! Trust me.. I may be a lb or two more this year-- and i KIKED my bootay all winter.. but hard work pays off!!

Glad you joined!!!!!!!!! We are here to help!!

bree marsh
04-07-2008, 04:33 PM
another reply form rainy...

I have tried high - rep training in the past but did not respond to it as well as to low rep training.
I was doing strength (4-6 reps) for Jan-March, and then switched to 8-10 reps now, to shock and hopefully grow

I am upping my cals now, as it has been pointed out I have been undereating for a long time, hence the slow muscle gains . I'm just a bit confused in how to do this, where to add the cals, do I up the carbs, protein, fat etc. Any suggestions?
I already added 10 almonds to my mid-morning shake to up the fats, and also added to the brown rice at lunch time to up the carbs a bit. I know I need more carbs.
I am wondering whether I should eat more post-workout (am eating 4 rice cakes at the moment) or eat more oats at breakfast (eat 1/2 cup now)?

Thanks a million for your help .

more carbs PWO!!!!! off-season, i get about 90-100g...4 rice cakes is about 40??? that ain't enough! really focus on your nutrition pre/post workout. that is when your body needs it most and will utilize it best! best PWO carbs are simple sugars like fruit/juice and white flour products like white bread/bagels....rice cakes are good too, but along with something else. when i was off-season, i would do a white bagel with jelly (70g carbs) + fruit or juice (30g carbs) hope this helps...

Ondrea
04-07-2008, 05:15 PM
yeah, this may sound bad but don't stress about diet in offseason. obviously you want to eat clean so your bulk is not all fat gain but when i did my bulking seasons, i didnt stress about weighing foods or making sure all my food was very clean, if i wanted carbs and sweets I ate them damn it! but yeah, up your carbs..healthy carbs (brown rice, whole wheat pasta, ezekial bread, yams, beans, oats) that is! but if you want bad carbs, go for them too!

LIFT LIFT LIFT HEAVY!!!!!!!

STAY AWAY FROM CRAZY CARDIO...not totally away, but you know what i'm talking about.

fitmomma3
04-07-2008, 05:52 PM
Welcome! Another hard hard gainer here too :)

All the suggestions are right on... We need pics in here :)

I always say this...but there is NOTHING more anabolic than FOOD! Eat up :)

High protein High carb... you can taper off carbs at the end of the day to keep from putting on too much junk in the trunk.

Heavy lifting yes but that does not mean just throwing up heavy weights...
Focus should be on form as well and a program structured around basics...squats, deads, bench, military press... when trying to grow remember REST and not over training is important too.

This can be a great thread as many of us are it seems always trying to gain!

dvsness
04-07-2008, 05:57 PM
FAT COMES OFF! Eat more food. ;)

Also, I recommend taking another day off from the gym. Muscle is built while RESTING!

Ondrea
04-07-2008, 06:36 PM
her pics are in links. ill have to highlight them for you all. or rainy just post them here. they are from bodybuilding.com right?

Rainy
04-08-2008, 09:43 AM
Wow, Andrea was right, this site really has got some great support :bowdown:. Thanks a million everyone for your great advice :kiss:. This is exactly what I needed, to be told where to add food and how to manipulate the training. I've upped the carbs in all my carb meals, and PWO will be more rice cakes and some fruit.
I eat clean and have one cheat meal at weekends.

I always lift heavy, and focus on compound movements. I think that is not the problem, rather the undereating part and cardio that has been hindering my progress in the past :banghead: I've cut down on the cardio this off-season, so currently it's 3x/wk 30- 40 mins, medium intensity, nothing crazy. It's mostly for me to keep my sanity.
I have been making some serious strength gains and am a lot bigger than I have been in a long time. I'm coming to terms with the bigger pants as I know the slob will come off once I start cutting.

Here are some pics from my first contest in November '07:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=1371573&ppuser=2219011

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/photo/showphoto.php?photo=1371543&ppuser=2219011

dvsness
04-08-2008, 03:14 PM
Lol - I know you from bb.com! :p

Rainy
04-08-2008, 03:42 PM
Yeah baby, I'm the lurker on your thread on BB.com...the NY chick on Nitro :waving: I have to go to NY again, I absolutely love that city. Gotta play the lottery some more :clap:

Ondrea
04-08-2008, 04:44 PM
forgot those rice cakes and fruit...add some good carbs...pasta, rice, even bagels! u gotta eat. dont think of diet for offseason.

like i said, it wil be tough to feel bloated and heavy but you will be adding muscle too, so you will look solid not all mushy. you gotta add fat to add muscle.

don't stress about diet. just eat if you want to eat. don't think of one cheat meal on one day. if you want that huge ass brownie with icecream on top on a random tuesdsay lunch then eat it! granted dont eat like crap at every meal...LOL! still keep most foods "clean" and not processed. but seriously though, just eat!

u sound like you have a high metabolism, so you obviously wil be abel to eat lots. it looks like your diet now will not put weight on with your type of metabolism u have.

Rainy
04-08-2008, 05:52 PM
Thanks again Andrea for your sound advice, really appreciate all your help :kiss:.

I have been adding a lot of weight since the comp in Nov, a whooping 17lbs, and am much bigger now, especially the waist. All my clothes are getting uncomfortably tight, and I don't fit into a lot of my jeans any more. I'm not too upset about it though and have actually been upping carbs and fats for the past days to increase cals.

The thing is, I've been dieting for 8 years, I used to be a fattie, lost 45 lbs through diet and exercise and have always been really careful with my diet since. Religious even...never, ever cheat except on weekends...and then I cheat like there is no tomorrow :eat:. So I'm not too sure about that brownie on a Tuesday....does sound tempting though

I'm not too sure if I have a high metabolism, since I've been able to put on 17lbs on a 1500 cal diet :confused: .

The main change from my contest diet to off season diet was upping the carbs and incorporate a cheat night. So I've been wondering if I might be carb sensitive, since I've been so low in cals but still managed to put on a lot of weight.

Ondrea
04-08-2008, 07:20 PM
oh, well i did not know that. congrats on your initial weight loss...45 pounds is huge! i figured since u were having trouble bulking you meant you just couldn't put on the weight.

are some of those 17 pounds from water though. do u feel comfortable posting your current pics? i forgot if u mentioned, r u getting enuf fiber?

trust me I am a binger...I know what you mean. It sucks big time. why not just make sure you are eating filling meals every few hours and dotn be scared of carbs, so you will not binge like crazy when you do have your cheat meal.

i wish i could help more. im going to do some research and come back later.

Rainy
04-08-2008, 08:26 PM
Honey, You have been such a huge help to me, I don't know how to express my gratitude :bowdown:

I am sorry, I should have mentioned my former fatness. I don't have a problem putting on weight, there's a fat girl inside me dying to get out. I was just worried I wasn't approaching the whole thing in the right way, especially regarding diet and therefore not putting on enough muscle and too much fat. But you have all opened my eyes to the side-effects of the off-season....namely the bootay :hula: and that I have not been eating enough. I am more positive about the whole body changing process now after the feedback from everyone here, as hopefully I will bring a better package to stage next time.
I think some of those 17lbs are water, yes, I hold a lot of water and as you pointed out my abs are my problem area which might explain the huge waist.

Ohh tell me about the binges... I hold the Guinnes record in the total amount of Cheerios eaten in one sitting :eat:

I was actually thinking about starting an off-season journal here and hopefully some chicas will stop by and give their feedback on the diet and training.

Ondrea
04-08-2008, 08:34 PM
please, please, please start an offseason jounrnal! we will love to all help you out. plus it would keep you in check!

i hold the record of eating dry oats...mixed with a bunch of good stuff!

Rainy
04-08-2008, 09:35 PM
I'm gonna start a journal.... have made up my mind about it. As you say, it keeps me on my toes as well and it's great to get support and feedback.

Dry oats with nuts, banana and strawberries....yummy. Never tried your oats, pb, spray butter combo. Might give it a try on a cheat day :eat: